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I really enjoyed the post till this: > Whilst I enjoy this kind of tinkering, it was disappointing that a "Dev Kit", built for developers can neither boot Linu

I really enjoyed the post till this: > Whilst I enjoy this kind of tinkering, it was disappointing that a "Dev Kit", built for developers can neither boot Linux, nor enable a custom Linux Kernel for WSL2. > What's that I hear Hacker News and Reddit cry? "It's a Dev Kit for Windows, you moron!" That may be the case, but Microsoft "Loves Linux", and clearly has worked hard to make WSL2 available out of the box on these devices. If something is named "Dev Kit" does it have to revolve around supporting a monoculture right out of the box? Secure boot is trivially unlockable, and Microsoft is losing money on the R&D and probably hardware as well. Someone will probably figure out how to get Linux natively running. Looks like they're just not happy that they're not able to immediately (ab)use the hardware meant for Windows on ARM developers for dozens or hundreds of cheap CI/CD machines for their commercial operation, which would prompt MS to raise the price for everyone or make it closed for verified Windows devs only(like Xbox Dev kits). I respect the grind, and Hacker News is all about using and abusing hardware in unintended ways, but I don't like the attitude and expectations in the quoted parts that everything should revolve around their niche use case of being able to run cheap CI/CD servers just because it has dev in it's name.

bayindirh 4y ago
When installing other operating systems to hardware platforms became abusing such platforms? What we expect next? BSA to raid my home because I run Linux on my Microsoft branded hardware, or connect Microsoft mouse to a Linux box?
pjmlp 4y ago
If something says it is for developers, does it have to revolve around UNIX clones as if there aren't any other kind of developers?
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  It's not about unix, it's about running anything and everything that you want.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    You can build your own PC then.
- trelane 4y ago
  > does it have to revolve around UNIX clones as if there aren't any other kind of developers? The irony of saying this in the context of Windows is thick enough one could cut it and use it to build a sizeable home.
  - com2kid 4y ago
    Windows was the dominant operating system for developers for nearly two decades. Up until about a decade ago, Microsoft arguably made the world's only good IDE. (ignoring some relics from the 80s!) It isn't as if Windows is some developer wasteland.
    - trelane 4y ago
      > Windows was the dominant operating system for developers for nearly two decades. This is rather my point. It's still the case that, in many businesses, nobody got fired for buying Microsoft. And, despite the increasing importance of Linux on the server, there's a _lot_ of software that ties its users to Windows. Too nad WSL doesn't live up to its name.
    - yellowapple 4y ago
      > Up until about a decade ago, Microsoft arguably made the world's only good IDE. If you're referring to Visual Studio then I think you and I have very different definitions of "good".
      - com2kid 4y ago
        > If you're referring to Visual Studio then I think you and I have very different definitions of "good". Go to 2010 Linux and find me an IDE with: 1. A functioning graphical debugger that works across multiple languages, both native and JITed 2. A fully featured WYSIWYG UI editor that can generate backing code in multiple languages 3. Comes with a SQL engine setup and ready to use for development, that it can seamlessly connect to for testing out code locally[1] 4. Can step from your code into SQL statements and back again 5. Can step from code you are debugging on a remote box, to SQL code running on yet another machine, and back again 6. Has functional, production ready, data binding that works with arbitrary data sources, that also fully integrates with the GUI builder 7. Integrates with source control 8. Integrates with task/work item management 9. Enables the workflow of you get an email about a fault on a server in a test environment, you click a link, and the IDE connects to the remote machine, downloads symbols, and starts up in the debugger 10. Automatically fetches the proper debugging symbols for the version of code you are debugging And again, this was all doable across a multitude of languages. IIRC Eclipse was the nearest "competitor" and it was slower than molasses and didn't have anything near the same feature set. Visual Studio is an impressive piece of software. Has it had some buggy releases? Yeah. Does it feel super outdated now? Yes it does, in comparison, VS Code's ability to navigate around files/projects is incredible. But I had a better developer experience using Visual Studio and C# a dozen years ago (!!!) than I have with Node JS now. [1] The modern cloud version of this is such a disaster.
justsomehnguy 4y ago
> and Microsoft is losing money on the ... hardware as well I prefer to use 'not earning' in this situations. This device were never intended to bring money directly in the first place and anything successful [developed with the help of this device] can bring thousands and millions of revenue. It's investing for a revenue multiplier.
anaisbetts 4y ago
Insane expectations. Imagine buying a brand-new Mac Mini with an extremely new processor (ARM is not like x86-64, every single SOC has its own distinct way to bring up the machine) and blaming Apple that your favorite Linux distro didn't immediately flawlessly work

bayindirh 4y ago

When installing other operating systems to hardware platforms became abusing such platforms? What we expect next? BSA to raid my home because I run Linux on my Microsoft branded hardware, or connect Microsoft mouse to a Linux box?

pjmlp 4y ago

If something says it is for developers, does it have to revolve around UNIX clones as if there aren't any other kind of developers?

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
It's not about unix, it's about running anything and everything that you want.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  You can build your own PC then.
trelane 4y ago
> does it have to revolve around UNIX clones as if there aren't any other kind of developers? The irony of saying this in the context of Windows is thick enough one could cut it and use it to build a sizeable home.
- com2kid 4y ago
  Windows was the dominant operating system for developers for nearly two decades. Up until about a decade ago, Microsoft arguably made the world's only good IDE. (ignoring some relics from the 80s!) It isn't as if Windows is some developer wasteland.
  - trelane 4y ago
    > Windows was the dominant operating system for developers for nearly two decades. This is rather my point. It's still the case that, in many businesses, nobody got fired for buying Microsoft. And, despite the increasing importance of Linux on the server, there's a _lot_ of software that ties its users to Windows. Too nad WSL doesn't live up to its name.
  - yellowapple 4y ago
    > Up until about a decade ago, Microsoft arguably made the world's only good IDE. If you're referring to Visual Studio then I think you and I have very different definitions of "good".
    - com2kid 4y ago
      > If you're referring to Visual Studio then I think you and I have very different definitions of "good". Go to 2010 Linux and find me an IDE with: 1. A functioning graphical debugger that works across multiple languages, both native and JITed 2. A fully featured WYSIWYG UI editor that can generate backing code in multiple languages 3. Comes with a SQL engine setup and ready to use for development, that it can seamlessly connect to for testing out code locally[1] 4. Can step from your code into SQL statements and back again 5. Can step from code you are debugging on a remote box, to SQL code running on yet another machine, and back again 6. Has functional, production ready, data binding that works with arbitrary data sources, that also fully integrates with the GUI builder 7. Integrates with source control 8. Integrates with task/work item management 9. Enables the workflow of you get an email about a fault on a server in a test environment, you click a link, and the IDE connects to the remote machine, downloads symbols, and starts up in the debugger 10. Automatically fetches the proper debugging symbols for the version of code you are debugging And again, this was all doable across a multitude of languages. IIRC Eclipse was the nearest "competitor" and it was slower than molasses and didn't have anything near the same feature set. Visual Studio is an impressive piece of software. Has it had some buggy releases? Yeah. Does it feel super outdated now? Yes it does, in comparison, VS Code's ability to navigate around files/projects is incredible. But I had a better developer experience using Visual Studio and C# a dozen years ago (!!!) than I have with Node JS now. [1] The modern cloud version of this is such a disaster.

justsomehnguy 4y ago

> and Microsoft is losing money on the ... hardware as well I prefer to use 'not earning' in this situations. This device were never intended to bring money directly in the first place and anything successful [developed with the help of this device] can bring thousands and millions of revenue. It's investing for a revenue multiplier.

anaisbetts 4y ago

Insane expectations. Imagine buying a brand-new Mac Mini with an extremely new processor (ARM is not like x86-64, every single SOC has its own distinct way to bring up the machine) and blaming Apple that your favorite Linux distro didn't immediately flawlessly work