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> I think the labels will be more than happy to bleed it dry and leave its lifeless corpse on the side of the road as they search for the next Big Thing to stra

> I think the labels will be more than happy to bleed it dry and leave its lifeless corpse on the side of the road as they search for the next Big Thing to strangle, bleed dry and leave behind. Absolutely correct. The intermediaries in the music distribution network (i.e. "the labels") already know that they have lost in the long term. They know that their best move now is to extract what revenue they can from the current examples of the types of service that will eventually replace them. Maybe this is "evil" or maybe the execs think of it as their job to try to earn as much as possible, perhaps for their shareholders' sake. Ironically, those services which seek to replace the labels in a way compatible with the law (i.e. startups rather than torrent sites) are the ones who will end up paying (perhaps too much) for it, and will risk going bust as a result. Meanwhile, sharing via torrents etc. is gradually killing off the labels. It may be in the interest of everyone to just let this occur without starting up a business which tries to find a middle ground. But there will always be companies springing up to take a gamble on being the first to exploit a new opportunity. If Spotify (or whoever) fails, perhaps the next music streaming service will be the one to meet a much weakened music distribution industry in the courts. Once the labels are gone, services which offer subscription models for music will thrive without the threat of legal action. And the quality and variety of music available to the masses will thrive. This is a waiting game, and I think we all know exactly how this will eventually play out. Meanwhile we're still in the wild west, waiting for the shootout at the O.K. Corral.

b1daly 15y ago
The lack of critical thinking about music copyright never ceases to boggle my mind. In this discussion Spotify is the intermediary. The labels and the artists do the heavy lifting here. Do you guys believe in the concept of intellectual property or what? It is vital for our whole economy (including FOSS). The labels put up the money for the projects, and the risk is terrible. If you are a label almost every one of your products loses a lot of money. In fact all of the money you invest! You hope to make it back on a handful of hit acts. In some sense acts that fail commercially come out on the long end of the stick, in that they burn throughs hundreds of thousands in cash and are not on the hook to pay it back. This is why the classic case of hit acts not making any money exists, the deal is structured way in the labels favor. Without this the labels can't make money. How you all feel about a company that agregated other companies software products and started giving them away for free? Any objections to that? Would you look down on efforts of developers to get as much as they can for their products? A vital music culture cant exist without some kind of viable business model. Many attempts have been made to build a business on indie bands (my space , mp3.com) it can't work because indie artists don't have near the resources to create a true modern music product. Not to mention most indie music is not that good, and nobody wants to hear it.
- barrkel 15y ago
  "Vital music cultures" have existed for millennia without "viable business models", in the way we understand that term today. People like to make music, even if the reward is only attention. There might be less money in it, less commerce in it, in the future without "viable business models", but I think you're somewhat brainwashed if you think that means there won't be a "vital music culture". If anything, the music culture may be even more vital in the absence of extrinsic motivation.
  - ianstormtaylor 15y ago
    "If anything, the music culture may be even more vital in the absence of extrinsic motivation." Dead on. If any amount of extrinsic motivation is removed from the music industry with the death of record companies I will be a very happy person.
  - paulhauggis 15y ago
    "If anything, the music culture may be even more vital in the absence of extrinsic motivation." It's interesting how everyone seems to want to make choices for artists..without even asking them. Without a way to make money, we will see less music. Why? Because artists will be forced to get day jobs. As it is, there is a small chance you will make a full living as an artist. If anything, it will kill the indy scene because the only companies that will be able to even come close to a profit are the the ones with deep pockets (IE: the huge record labels or something like it). Like software piracy, Adobe and Microsoft can handle it. Small companies go out of business if piracy us unchecked. I've seen it happen.
    - thomaslangston 15y ago
      I don't think the artists get a special role in creating copyright laws since effectively those laws are an abridgment of the freedom of speech. We can speak our minds on this issue without having to ask their permission. Given the course of recent history (i.e. ever expanding copyright terms and regulation), I don't see that more consideration for artists is warranted.
r00fus 15y ago
> The intermediaries in the music distribution network (i.e. "the labels") already know that they have lost in the long term. You have GOT to be kidding me. These entities along with their purchased congress-critters and executive appointees are ready to go nuclear vs. the Internet (which is the fundamental change agent that allows them to be disintermediated). They are not going down without a fight - this is the same industry that decided suing their customers was a great idea, they would not think twice about burning down the commons by destroying the Internet as we know it. As an analogy, we've had electric cars for sale since the 1970s, but only recently have we gotten any real options... imagine if the music mafia could achieve that kind of life extension? It's certainly a probability this could happen.

b1daly 15y ago

The lack of critical thinking about music copyright never ceases to boggle my mind. In this discussion Spotify is the intermediary. The labels and the artists do the heavy lifting here. Do you guys believe in the concept of intellectual property or what? It is vital for our whole economy (including FOSS). The labels put up the money for the projects, and the risk is terrible. If you are a label almost every one of your products loses a lot of money. In fact all of the money you invest! You hope to make it back on a handful of hit acts. In some sense acts that fail commercially come out on the long end of the stick, in that they burn throughs hundreds of thousands in cash and are not on the hook to pay it back. This is why the classic case of hit acts not making any money exists, the deal is structured way in the labels favor. Without this the labels can't make money. How you all feel about a company that agregated other companies software products and started giving them away for free? Any objections to that? Would you look down on efforts of developers to get as much as they can for their products? A vital music culture cant exist without some kind of viable business model. Many attempts have been made to build a business on indie bands (my space , mp3.com) it can't work because indie artists don't have near the resources to create a true modern music product. Not to mention most indie music is not that good, and nobody wants to hear it.

barrkel 15y ago
"Vital music cultures" have existed for millennia without "viable business models", in the way we understand that term today. People like to make music, even if the reward is only attention. There might be less money in it, less commerce in it, in the future without "viable business models", but I think you're somewhat brainwashed if you think that means there won't be a "vital music culture". If anything, the music culture may be even more vital in the absence of extrinsic motivation.
- ianstormtaylor 15y ago
  "If anything, the music culture may be even more vital in the absence of extrinsic motivation." Dead on. If any amount of extrinsic motivation is removed from the music industry with the death of record companies I will be a very happy person.
- paulhauggis 15y ago
  "If anything, the music culture may be even more vital in the absence of extrinsic motivation." It's interesting how everyone seems to want to make choices for artists..without even asking them. Without a way to make money, we will see less music. Why? Because artists will be forced to get day jobs. As it is, there is a small chance you will make a full living as an artist. If anything, it will kill the indy scene because the only companies that will be able to even come close to a profit are the the ones with deep pockets (IE: the huge record labels or something like it). Like software piracy, Adobe and Microsoft can handle it. Small companies go out of business if piracy us unchecked. I've seen it happen.
  - thomaslangston 15y ago
    I don't think the artists get a special role in creating copyright laws since effectively those laws are an abridgment of the freedom of speech. We can speak our minds on this issue without having to ask their permission. Given the course of recent history (i.e. ever expanding copyright terms and regulation), I don't see that more consideration for artists is warranted.

r00fus 15y ago

> The intermediaries in the music distribution network (i.e. "the labels") already know that they have lost in the long term. You have GOT to be kidding me. These entities along with their purchased congress-critters and executive appointees are ready to go nuclear vs. the Internet (which is the fundamental change agent that allows them to be disintermediated). They are not going down without a fight - this is the same industry that decided suing their customers was a great idea, they would not think twice about burning down the commons by destroying the Internet as we know it. As an analogy, we've had electric cars for sale since the 1970s, but only recently have we gotten any real options... imagine if the music mafia could achieve that kind of life extension? It's certainly a probability this could happen.