4 ms·

In my experience, face time is very important in an organization and it's not just about productivity. It's very hard to effectively motivate people and align t

by yangez 15y ago

In my experience, face time is very important in an organization and it's not just about productivity. It's very hard to effectively motivate people and align the company's vision if half of your employees aren't even there.

Nate75Sanders 15y ago
If the kind of people who get paid $150K to write software are having trouble getting motivated, maybe you made a mistake in hiring them, or at least paying them $150K.
- karamazov 15y ago
  If I paid you $250k to lay on a couch very quietly, staring into space and not sleeping, for 8 hours a day, how long would you stay motivated? (Note: This is reducto ad absurdum, not a comment on how interesting writing bad software may or may not be.)
munin 15y ago
a lot of people here would probably tell you that if you need face time to motivate people and you are the kind of person who unironically says "align the company's vision", you're probably screwed anyway. I don't know if I personally would go that far, but I can say that after five years of working in an office, exciting ideas communicated succinctly transcend the medium. if you tell your people good things, you can use IRC, twitter, quill and parchment, or smoke signals. it won't matter. they'll be motivated.
- yangez 15y ago
  Point taken. Just wanted to bring up the idea that there are other considerations besides just productivity that might affect a company's policies.
  - munin 15y ago
    it's definitely true. but I'm pretty convinced that the most legitimate considerations are ones born out of physical necessity. are you doing archaeological excavation? studying wildlife in a forest? need to do everything in magical shielded rooms with no internet connection "for security purposes"? okay, I probably need to be there for that. oh, you're writing software? for the web? yeah, I can do that anywhere, thanks...
    - hendrix 15y ago
      If you are not at the office what differentiates you from someone in china/russia/india/europe? Why should you be paid 150k/yr for something when people who are also not present would do the same thing for 30k/yr? There are people who speak english in other places than Canada/USA/UK...
      - munin 15y ago
        > what differentiates you from someone in... the quality of my work, both in terms of the product (code, papers) and the experience of working with me (communication, cultural fit, etc)? just because you have remote people or even just because your entire workforce is remote, doesn't mean that cultural fit isn't important! culture is about way more than how your food smells while you're microwaving it ...
        hendrix 15y ago
        Culture in the USA is not that different from the UK/Ireland/other 1st world English speaking countries. So you have a $109k/year position in SF and a $61k/year position in Dublin. Microsoft figured this out years ago. http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/san-francisco-software-engineer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,13_IM759_KO14,31.htm http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/san-francisco-software-eng... http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/dublin-software-engineer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,6_IM1052_KO7,24.htm http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/dublin-software-engineer-s...
      - danssig 15y ago
moe 15y ago
It's very hard to effectively motivate people I hear this a lot and am starting to wonder if they teach that in business school? You don't motivate people by "aligning them with the company vision". That only leads to these embarrassing company events where the 3 stakeholders gush over their "mission statement" for 45 minutes straight while 3/4 of the attendants really only wait for the free pizza to arrive... You motivate people by treating them like adults, paying them well, and by minimizing the amount of bullshit in their workflow.
- Maven911 15y ago
  There are classes for that in business school, such as orgazinational behaviour and leadership, but like most of academic learning, you learn to pass a test, not on how well its applied in the real world
- tcskeptic 15y ago
  Fundamentally I don't think you can motivate people. We may actually be saying similar things, but I think you can only really demotivate them by treating them in a psychotic, demeaning or inhumane ways. Motivation on the other hand is is an emergent, instrinsic human quality that can only be killed, not created. "Not killing it" as you say is largely a question of people actually contributing to work that they find worthwhile and having their contributions respected by the company. But there are some folks who would never be motivated, as they simply do not have that quality within themselves.
  - perlgeek 15y ago
    I think it's possible to motivate people by providing positive feedback. Suppose you work on a web app, and have 1k signups on the day you go live, and 2k on the next day. Wouldn't that increase motivitation? I surely enjoy watching the visitor stats of a new website, and feel more motivated when they are rising quickly. Yes, you can't motivatve everybody for everything, but I do think it's possible to achieve something with positive feedback.
- pwang 15y ago
  And how do you make sure these super-productive adults with their optimized workflows are, you know, actually working on the right thing? It's easy to naysay "all that traditional biz school bullshit" until it's your job to make 10 top-notch programmers who are each convinced they are great architects to all write code that somebody else is going to pay for.

by yangez 15y ago

Nate75Sanders 15y ago

If the kind of people who get paid $150K to write software are having trouble getting motivated, maybe you made a mistake in hiring them, or at least paying them $150K.

karamazov 15y ago
If I paid you $250k to lay on a couch very quietly, staring into space and not sleeping, for 8 hours a day, how long would you stay motivated? (Note: This is reducto ad absurdum, not a comment on how interesting writing bad software may or may not be.)

munin 15y ago

a lot of people here would probably tell you that if you need face time to motivate people and you are the kind of person who unironically says "align the company's vision", you're probably screwed anyway. I don't know if I personally would go that far, but I can say that after five years of working in an office, exciting ideas communicated succinctly transcend the medium. if you tell your people good things, you can use IRC, twitter, quill and parchment, or smoke signals. it won't matter. they'll be motivated.

yangez 15y ago
Point taken. Just wanted to bring up the idea that there are other considerations besides just productivity that might affect a company's policies.
- munin 15y ago
  it's definitely true. but I'm pretty convinced that the most legitimate considerations are ones born out of physical necessity. are you doing archaeological excavation? studying wildlife in a forest? need to do everything in magical shielded rooms with no internet connection "for security purposes"? okay, I probably need to be there for that. oh, you're writing software? for the web? yeah, I can do that anywhere, thanks...
  - hendrix 15y ago
    If you are not at the office what differentiates you from someone in china/russia/india/europe? Why should you be paid 150k/yr for something when people who are also not present would do the same thing for 30k/yr? There are people who speak english in other places than Canada/USA/UK...
    - munin 15y ago
      > what differentiates you from someone in... the quality of my work, both in terms of the product (code, papers) and the experience of working with me (communication, cultural fit, etc)? just because you have remote people or even just because your entire workforce is remote, doesn't mean that cultural fit isn't important! culture is about way more than how your food smells while you're microwaving it ...
      - hendrix 15y ago
        Culture in the USA is not that different from the UK/Ireland/other 1st world English speaking countries. So you have a $109k/year position in SF and a $61k/year position in Dublin. Microsoft figured this out years ago. http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/san-francisco-software-engineer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,13_IM759_KO14,31.htm http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/san-francisco-software-eng... http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/dublin-software-engineer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,6_IM1052_KO7,24.htm http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/dublin-software-engineer-s...
    - danssig 15y ago

moe 15y ago

It's very hard to effectively motivate people I hear this a lot and am starting to wonder if they teach that in business school? You don't motivate people by "aligning them with the company vision". That only leads to these embarrassing company events where the 3 stakeholders gush over their "mission statement" for 45 minutes straight while 3/4 of the attendants really only wait for the free pizza to arrive... You motivate people by treating them like adults, paying them well, and by minimizing the amount of bullshit in their workflow.

Maven911 15y ago
There are classes for that in business school, such as orgazinational behaviour and leadership, but like most of academic learning, you learn to pass a test, not on how well its applied in the real world
tcskeptic 15y ago
Fundamentally I don't think you can motivate people. We may actually be saying similar things, but I think you can only really demotivate them by treating them in a psychotic, demeaning or inhumane ways. Motivation on the other hand is is an emergent, instrinsic human quality that can only be killed, not created. "Not killing it" as you say is largely a question of people actually contributing to work that they find worthwhile and having their contributions respected by the company. But there are some folks who would never be motivated, as they simply do not have that quality within themselves.
- perlgeek 15y ago
  I think it's possible to motivate people by providing positive feedback. Suppose you work on a web app, and have 1k signups on the day you go live, and 2k on the next day. Wouldn't that increase motivitation? I surely enjoy watching the visitor stats of a new website, and feel more motivated when they are rising quickly. Yes, you can't motivatve everybody for everything, but I do think it's possible to achieve something with positive feedback.
pwang 15y ago
And how do you make sure these super-productive adults with their optimized workflows are, you know, actually working on the right thing? It's easy to naysay "all that traditional biz school bullshit" until it's your job to make 10 top-notch programmers who are each convinced they are great architects to all write code that somebody else is going to pay for.