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The UK already has a ban on new petrol & diesel car sales from 2030, so is a few years ahead of the EU. However, under the current rules, plug-in hybrids will s

The UK already has a ban on new petrol & diesel car sales from 2030, so is a few years ahead of the EU. However, under the current rules, plug-in hybrids will still be permitted.

alias_neo 4y ago
I'm aware of the rule here (I'm in England); everyone I know has simply said they'll buy a new ICE car near the deadline to gain some extra longevity. I want to go all-electric, but I cant get on board with the glaring issues that are battery-tech and all-touch interior-controls; Gone are the days where you can buy a car and it'll last 20+ years with maintenance, you buy an electric, at a premium, get a crap interior and a battery that won't hold charge within 5 years, so you can't drive it, and you can't sell it.
- Reason077 4y ago
  There's plenty of variety in EVs out there now. Lots without "all touch interiors" if that's not your thing. Today's EV batteries will last for 15-20 years, which is the approximate lifetime of most combustion cars today in the UK. Some emerging battery chemistries, like the LFP cells used in some Teslas, may last considerably longer.
  - alias_neo 4y ago
    Interesting to know thanks. How much capacity are we expecting to have after say half of this time? I wonder how this will affect resale value compared to odometer values on ICE vehicles now.
  - AstralStorm 4y ago
    And it is possible to reuse old cells for grid storage etc. If only they were standardized...
lloeki 4y ago
Over here there's a ranking system (Crit'Air) for vehicles on the road, largely based off of the EURO-{x} norm. For cars: - 0: EV or hydrogen (a.k.a Zero Emission Vehicle) - 1: plug-in hybrid, LP gaz, EURO-5 or EURO-6 petrol (2011 onwards) - 2: EURO-4 petrol or hybrid (2006-2010), EURO-5 or EURO-6 diesel (2011 onwards) - 3: EURO-2 or EURO-3 petrol or hybrid (1997-2005), EURO-4 diesel (2006-2010) - 4: EURO-3 diesel (2001-2005) - 5: EURO-2 diesel (1997-2004) - unranked: anything older There are two cases where it can apply, on specific geographic Low Emission Zones: - 24/7/365 rules - air quality degradation peaks with more stringent rules for the duration of the event (depends on event magnitude, usually it's capoed at 2) My local LEZ has the following timetable: - 2020: unranked soft-forbidden (warned, not enforced) - 2022: unranked forbidden (enforced), 5 soft forbidden - 2023: 5 forbidden, 4 soft forbidden - 2024: 4+ forbidden, 3 soft forbidden - 2025: 3+ forbidden, 2 soft forbidden - 2028: 2+ forbidden Which leaves us on the road (not sales!) with a soft ban on diesel in 2024, enforced in 2025, and modern petrol+ZEVs in 2028, with full ZEV looming over for 2030. This in turn has effects on sales way before each ban because no one in their right mind would buy a car (new or second hand) that can't be used a couple of years down the road (nor resold, because no one would buy it) I mean, if one buys a diesel today it's going to be soft banned in a little over a year and fined to death (through automated license plate reading) in two years, so essentially some indirect sale ban is already in effect. Apply that reasoning in the 2025-2028 period and it would probably not be a good idea to buy a petrol car either, leaving only ZEVs (i.e EVs since there's no hydrogen powered car on the market yet) Also note that this is not about residency, merely passing through the LEZ makes one eligible for a fine, so this has rippling effects outside the LEZ.
- Reason077 4y ago
  Sounds like a good policy. The ULEZ in London (soft ban on pre-EURO 6 diesels) introduced in 2019 has already made a noticeable difference to air quality.
  - lloeki 4y ago
    Yeah, it makes sense, the area is very sensitive to air pollution buildups. Combined with some other changes on peak events it already went from absolutely terrible (like, actual smog) to somewhat poor. That said, the EV infrastructure is heavily underdeveloped, and I have a hard time seeing that change enough in the next 5 years. I mean, it's possible but to scale in time with demand it needs to start happening now... which it doesn't. I mean the proper use of EV is to charge at rest (e.g parking lots), not at gas^Wpower stations. So in the next years there's going to be tension between getting a throwaway hybrid/petrol car or go EV but suffer from contention on charging spots. Now, personally I'm a bit annoyed because my corner case of a car is peculiar: we own two, one rank 1 low emission daily driver and one seldom driven EURO-4 petrol sports car (so, rank 2) that'll be banned in 2028 but wanted to keep as a collector, which happens at 30y, and it'll be "only" 20 by then. To boot there's no exception (yet?) for such (or any actually) collector vehicles, which means they're being made illegal, and should theoretically go to the grinder, or forever be relegated to barns or museums, which is a real shame.

The UK already has a ban on new petrol & diesel car sales from 2030, so is a few years ahead of the EU. However, under the current rules, plug-in hybrids will still be permitted.

alias_neo 4y ago

I'm aware of the rule here (I'm in England); everyone I know has simply said they'll buy a new ICE car near the deadline to gain some extra longevity. I want to go all-electric, but I cant get on board with the glaring issues that are battery-tech and all-touch interior-controls; Gone are the days where you can buy a car and it'll last 20+ years with maintenance, you buy an electric, at a premium, get a crap interior and a battery that won't hold charge within 5 years, so you can't drive it, and you can't sell it.

Reason077 4y ago
There's plenty of variety in EVs out there now. Lots without "all touch interiors" if that's not your thing. Today's EV batteries will last for 15-20 years, which is the approximate lifetime of most combustion cars today in the UK. Some emerging battery chemistries, like the LFP cells used in some Teslas, may last considerably longer.
- alias_neo 4y ago
  Interesting to know thanks. How much capacity are we expecting to have after say half of this time? I wonder how this will affect resale value compared to odometer values on ICE vehicles now.
- AstralStorm 4y ago
  And it is possible to reuse old cells for grid storage etc. If only they were standardized...

lloeki 4y ago

Over here there's a ranking system (Crit'Air) for vehicles on the road, largely based off of the EURO-{x} norm. For cars: - 0: EV or hydrogen (a.k.a Zero Emission Vehicle) - 1: plug-in hybrid, LP gaz, EURO-5 or EURO-6 petrol (2011 onwards) - 2: EURO-4 petrol or hybrid (2006-2010), EURO-5 or EURO-6 diesel (2011 onwards) - 3: EURO-2 or EURO-3 petrol or hybrid (1997-2005), EURO-4 diesel (2006-2010) - 4: EURO-3 diesel (2001-2005) - 5: EURO-2 diesel (1997-2004) - unranked: anything older There are two cases where it can apply, on specific geographic Low Emission Zones: - 24/7/365 rules - air quality degradation peaks with more stringent rules for the duration of the event (depends on event magnitude, usually it's capoed at 2) My local LEZ has the following timetable: - 2020: unranked soft-forbidden (warned, not enforced) - 2022: unranked forbidden (enforced), 5 soft forbidden - 2023: 5 forbidden, 4 soft forbidden - 2024: 4+ forbidden, 3 soft forbidden - 2025: 3+ forbidden, 2 soft forbidden - 2028: 2+ forbidden Which leaves us on the road (not sales!) with a soft ban on diesel in 2024, enforced in 2025, and modern petrol+ZEVs in 2028, with full ZEV looming over for 2030. This in turn has effects on sales way before each ban because no one in their right mind would buy a car (new or second hand) that can't be used a couple of years down the road (nor resold, because no one would buy it) I mean, if one buys a diesel today it's going to be soft banned in a little over a year and fined to death (through automated license plate reading) in two years, so essentially some indirect sale ban is already in effect. Apply that reasoning in the 2025-2028 period and it would probably not be a good idea to buy a petrol car either, leaving only ZEVs (i.e EVs since there's no hydrogen powered car on the market yet) Also note that this is not about residency, merely passing through the LEZ makes one eligible for a fine, so this has rippling effects outside the LEZ.

Reason077 4y ago
Sounds like a good policy. The ULEZ in London (soft ban on pre-EURO 6 diesels) introduced in 2019 has already made a noticeable difference to air quality.
- lloeki 4y ago
  Yeah, it makes sense, the area is very sensitive to air pollution buildups. Combined with some other changes on peak events it already went from absolutely terrible (like, actual smog) to somewhat poor. That said, the EV infrastructure is heavily underdeveloped, and I have a hard time seeing that change enough in the next 5 years. I mean, it's possible but to scale in time with demand it needs to start happening now... which it doesn't. I mean the proper use of EV is to charge at rest (e.g parking lots), not at gas^Wpower stations. So in the next years there's going to be tension between getting a throwaway hybrid/petrol car or go EV but suffer from contention on charging spots. Now, personally I'm a bit annoyed because my corner case of a car is peculiar: we own two, one rank 1 low emission daily driver and one seldom driven EURO-4 petrol sports car (so, rank 2) that'll be banned in 2028 but wanted to keep as a collector, which happens at 30y, and it'll be "only" 20 by then. To boot there's no exception (yet?) for such (or any actually) collector vehicles, which means they're being made illegal, and should theoretically go to the grinder, or forever be relegated to barns or museums, which is a real shame.