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Instead of taking away power from users, Firefox should rather inform users. Let them modify the browser in any way they want. Let them write plugins that can

by Timja 4y ago

Instead of taking away power from users, Firefox should rather inform users. Let them modify the browser in any way they want. Let them write plugins that can do anything. But inform users who install a third party plugin what that plugin can do. Like "This plugin wants the right to read all data on all websites you visit. In theory it could capture your bank login and transfer it to some other server". Another bad decision by Firefox to limit users ability to do what they want is that they don't support the File Access API: https://web.dev/file-system-access/ https://web.dev/file-system-access/ This gives Chrome users the ability to build simple web pages that can be used like native applications. An empty html page with a textarea, load and save buttons and you have a text editor! I hope Firefox will notice that they lose market share because of restricting users freedom. And turn the ship around.

mnadkvlb 4y ago
- pixxel 4y ago
  Similar to charity executives who are paid handsomely to not solve homelessness or whatever the cause is. It’s a grift.
  - the_other 4y ago
    It's hard to tell from your comment whether you've met any charity CEOs, or worked with them, or tried to solve the problems they've solved and have learned enough from the space to pass such damning judgement so widely.
    - bluGill 4y ago
      There are a lot of charities. Some do good work on a hard (I suspect impossible) problem. Some exist to pay the CEO a lot and do as little good work as they can get by with.
    - pixxel 4y ago
      I concede I made a sweeping statement. As we’re on HN I'm happy to focus on the ever-increasing homelessness epidemic in SF, with its year-on-year ballooning billion dollar budget.
- Dah00n 4y ago
  Could we please not do this on HN? If true (I have no idea) at least write a better comment that leaves the reader wiser after reading.
  - mnadkvlb 4y ago
    Not allowed to edit my comment anymore. Why is salary for the CEO rising to 3 mil $ a year for the ceo when the marketshare of the browser has been down by more than 85%. How would paying the CEO more salary and laying of the engineers solve low marketshare is beyond my understanding.[0] [0]: https://www.zdnet.com/home-and-office/networking/endangered-firefox-the-state-of-mozilla/ https://www.zdnet.com/home-and-office/networking/endangered-... Lots of UI changes like constantly changing menu items and losing control of the browser in general. Leaves a bad taste when useful customization options are removed and instead we get color themes sugarcoated as the coolest new stuff (every few years, sometimes its limited edition sometimes some fancy BS term). Firefox unique ids: why they leave me a bad taste ? I have added a previous discussion from HN. [1] [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30715163 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30715163 I used to love the firefox from around 2017, but every new release removes some configuration options and we lose control. Maybe my views are full of too much rants, but i install firefox as the first thing on any OS for me and my immediate circle followed by ublock origin. I want firefox to thrive and be handled more like linux. Even though i don't like the current direction of the management, firefox is my daily driver for development as well as browsing.
    - webmobdev 4y ago
      You forgot to mention that Mozilla can now remotely target and run code on Firefox browsers (SHIELD Studies in Firefox - https://winaero.com/disable-shield-studies-firefox/ https://winaero.com/disable-shield-studies-firefox/ , Mozilla ships Cliqz experiment in Germany for ~1% of new installs, collects surf data, including URLs - https://old.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/74n0b2/mozilla_ships_cliqz_experiment_in_germany_for_1/ https://old.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/74n0b2/mozilla_shi... ) and that it has now started to bundle adware in Firefox ( Firefox’s address bar has ads now - https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/7/22715179/firefox-suggest-search-ads-browser https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/7/22715179/firefox-suggest-... ). (You are not alone in believing that the current Mozilla Corp. leadership are incompetent to uphold the original ethos of Mozilla, and worse, are selfishly prioritising their relationship with BigTech than their users).
bawolff 4y ago
As a general thing the average user does not want freedom; they want safety. What you are saying might still make sense for firefox because they need to find some sort of niche given their falling market share, and power users is a potential one. However i would disagree that in general its a good strategy for winning the market as a whole.
- arcbyte 4y ago
  > find some sort of niche given their falling market share, and power users is a potential one. However i would disagree that in general its a good strategy for winning the market as a whole. That's interesting because their whole initial rise to becoming a dominant browser was based on "power" users back in the aughts.
- HWR_14 4y ago
  > the average user does not want freedom; they want safety. More importantly, I want my family member's browsers to provide them safety. Because I'll be the one running malware removal code on their computer, etc. I'm going to lean towards something that is safe for them.
- asddubs 4y ago
  I'm honestly not really sure that's true. People want safety, but I think when it comes right down to it, they want freedom (aka the thing they want to do to just work) even more
  - bawolff 4y ago
    Things "just working" isnt really user freedom either. Generally its hard to make something that just works and is also tinker friendly. The more configurable something is the more the user has to deal with configuration. E.g. Compare just-workingness between emacs and microsoft word.
    - asddubs 4y ago
      yes, I agree, that's why I qualified it, because I don't think what users really want is freedom either, unless the lack of it happens to get in their way

by Timja 4y ago

mnadkvlb 4y ago

pixxel 4y ago
Similar to charity executives who are paid handsomely to not solve homelessness or whatever the cause is. It’s a grift.
- the_other 4y ago
  It's hard to tell from your comment whether you've met any charity CEOs, or worked with them, or tried to solve the problems they've solved and have learned enough from the space to pass such damning judgement so widely.
  - bluGill 4y ago
    There are a lot of charities. Some do good work on a hard (I suspect impossible) problem. Some exist to pay the CEO a lot and do as little good work as they can get by with.
  - pixxel 4y ago
    I concede I made a sweeping statement. As we’re on HN I'm happy to focus on the ever-increasing homelessness epidemic in SF, with its year-on-year ballooning billion dollar budget.
Dah00n 4y ago
Could we please not do this on HN? If true (I have no idea) at least write a better comment that leaves the reader wiser after reading.
- mnadkvlb 4y ago
  Not allowed to edit my comment anymore. Why is salary for the CEO rising to 3 mil $ a year for the ceo when the marketshare of the browser has been down by more than 85%. How would paying the CEO more salary and laying of the engineers solve low marketshare is beyond my understanding.[0] [0]: https://www.zdnet.com/home-and-office/networking/endangered-firefox-the-state-of-mozilla/ https://www.zdnet.com/home-and-office/networking/endangered-... Lots of UI changes like constantly changing menu items and losing control of the browser in general. Leaves a bad taste when useful customization options are removed and instead we get color themes sugarcoated as the coolest new stuff (every few years, sometimes its limited edition sometimes some fancy BS term). Firefox unique ids: why they leave me a bad taste ? I have added a previous discussion from HN. [1] [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30715163 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30715163 I used to love the firefox from around 2017, but every new release removes some configuration options and we lose control. Maybe my views are full of too much rants, but i install firefox as the first thing on any OS for me and my immediate circle followed by ublock origin. I want firefox to thrive and be handled more like linux. Even though i don't like the current direction of the management, firefox is my daily driver for development as well as browsing.
  - webmobdev 4y ago
    You forgot to mention that Mozilla can now remotely target and run code on Firefox browsers (SHIELD Studies in Firefox - https://winaero.com/disable-shield-studies-firefox/ https://winaero.com/disable-shield-studies-firefox/ , Mozilla ships Cliqz experiment in Germany for ~1% of new installs, collects surf data, including URLs - https://old.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/74n0b2/mozilla_ships_cliqz_experiment_in_germany_for_1/ https://old.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/74n0b2/mozilla_shi... ) and that it has now started to bundle adware in Firefox ( Firefox’s address bar has ads now - https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/7/22715179/firefox-suggest-search-ads-browser https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/7/22715179/firefox-suggest-... ). (You are not alone in believing that the current Mozilla Corp. leadership are incompetent to uphold the original ethos of Mozilla, and worse, are selfishly prioritising their relationship with BigTech than their users).

bawolff 4y ago

As a general thing the average user does not want freedom; they want safety. What you are saying might still make sense for firefox because they need to find some sort of niche given their falling market share, and power users is a potential one. However i would disagree that in general its a good strategy for winning the market as a whole.

arcbyte 4y ago
> find some sort of niche given their falling market share, and power users is a potential one. However i would disagree that in general its a good strategy for winning the market as a whole. That's interesting because their whole initial rise to becoming a dominant browser was based on "power" users back in the aughts.
HWR_14 4y ago
> the average user does not want freedom; they want safety. More importantly, I want my family member's browsers to provide them safety. Because I'll be the one running malware removal code on their computer, etc. I'm going to lean towards something that is safe for them.
asddubs 4y ago
I'm honestly not really sure that's true. People want safety, but I think when it comes right down to it, they want freedom (aka the thing they want to do to just work) even more
- bawolff 4y ago
  Things "just working" isnt really user freedom either. Generally its hard to make something that just works and is also tinker friendly. The more configurable something is the more the user has to deal with configuration. E.g. Compare just-workingness between emacs and microsoft word.
  - asddubs 4y ago
    yes, I agree, that's why I qualified it, because I don't think what users really want is freedom either, unless the lack of it happens to get in their way