3 ms·

The title/article seems to be a bit of a strawman, AFAICT countries (or their governments / citizens) do not consider the GDP as the one and only measure of nat

by em500 4y ago

The title/article seems to be a bit of a strawman, AFAICT countries (or their governments / citizens) do not consider the GDP as the one and only measure of national success. Politics are driven by tons of different interest groups (in the broadest sense, ranging from corporate interests, environmental activists, minority representatives, medical or teaching professionals, farmers, retirees living on state pensions, etc, etc.), not by whether some policy might give a boost to GDP. I could argue that it would probably be better if they actually did, but that's for another thread. In truth, pretty much nobody really knows for sure what policies actually will increase GDP, or what causes the short term fluctuations (business cycle / recession) or variation in long term divergense between different countries in the first place. The more honest academic economists will freely admit this. (I was explicitly thaught so in my graduate macro-economics courses). So I think it's a strawman to think that countries/governments are engating in some kind of myopic GDP maximization plan. I think the appropriate analogy is household or personal income. (GDP is just all incomes in a country summed up and corrected for inflation.) It's probably not the most important thing in the world, and probably not the most important determinant of personal happyness or life satisfaction. But a severe lack of it (especially compared to the people around you) or an unexpected large drop will probably be considered problematic by most people.

DontTrustOver25 4y ago
cryptonector 4y ago
> In truth, pretty much nobody really knows for sure what policies actually will increase GDP [...] Increase GDP?
roenxi 4y ago
> In truth, pretty much nobody really knows for sure what policies actually will increase GDP... Have they tried securing access to large amounts of cheap energy? It is a bit of a win-win because either GDP goes up and case closed or they can sit back and relax in luxury mulling why GDP didn't go up despite massive increases in the general prosperity. Energy isn't the entire story because there also need to be people around who know how to transform it into whatever you want, but it is a rather important part of the puzzle. After that, freedom and education are probably going to make up the rest. What else is there? I suppose land ownership. The puzzle isn't that complicated. We all know what comfort looks like. Asking how to make GDP go up is the wrong question, it is just a tool to point out when policies are wasting resources. More waste -> less GDP -> notice that and waste less -> reorient to secure prosperity.
- thewarrior 4y ago
  Yes they created a global reserve currency they can print to get energy as they need and a super large military to force everyone to go along with it. Securing large amounts of cheap energy is non trivial as europe is beginning to find out.
  - gadders 4y ago
    Not trivial, but there are a few foot-guns that can be avoided like not shutting down your nuclear power plants or not giving licenses to actually dig the energy out of the ground.
- defrost 4y ago
  > What else is there? I suppose land ownership. As in? The % of pop. that owns land? The conversion of common parks to land titles for sale? The spread of skyscrapers to allow the sale of vetically stacked "land"?
- SideQuark 4y ago
  Every country tries securing cheap energy; that's what energy markets are for. There is no such thing as a trivial win here. And trying to secure it could end up costing significant GDP, as demonstrated by wars fought over securing energy.
  - roenxi 4y ago
    They aren't. The EU is in the news right now because they cracked down on nuclear and fossil fuels and - after succeeding - ended up in an energy crisis. You can see what countries trying to secure cheap energy do by looking at China and India - lots of coal, lots of oil, bring on as much capacity in nuclear and renewables as they can. They're playing with effectively 4x as many sources of energy as the EU despite the Europeans having a wealth and tech lead! I say 4x because renewables aren't quite a big enough energy source to break up into components.
    - Schroedingersat 4y ago

by em500 4y ago

DontTrustOver25 4y ago

cryptonector 4y ago

> In truth, pretty much nobody really knows for sure what policies actually will increase GDP [...] Increase GDP?

roenxi 4y ago

> In truth, pretty much nobody really knows for sure what policies actually will increase GDP... Have they tried securing access to large amounts of cheap energy? It is a bit of a win-win because either GDP goes up and case closed or they can sit back and relax in luxury mulling why GDP didn't go up despite massive increases in the general prosperity. Energy isn't the entire story because there also need to be people around who know how to transform it into whatever you want, but it is a rather important part of the puzzle. After that, freedom and education are probably going to make up the rest. What else is there? I suppose land ownership. The puzzle isn't that complicated. We all know what comfort looks like. Asking how to make GDP go up is the wrong question, it is just a tool to point out when policies are wasting resources. More waste -> less GDP -> notice that and waste less -> reorient to secure prosperity.

thewarrior 4y ago
Yes they created a global reserve currency they can print to get energy as they need and a super large military to force everyone to go along with it. Securing large amounts of cheap energy is non trivial as europe is beginning to find out.
- gadders 4y ago
  Not trivial, but there are a few foot-guns that can be avoided like not shutting down your nuclear power plants or not giving licenses to actually dig the energy out of the ground.
defrost 4y ago
> What else is there? I suppose land ownership. As in? The % of pop. that owns land? The conversion of common parks to land titles for sale? The spread of skyscrapers to allow the sale of vetically stacked "land"?
SideQuark 4y ago
Every country tries securing cheap energy; that's what energy markets are for. There is no such thing as a trivial win here. And trying to secure it could end up costing significant GDP, as demonstrated by wars fought over securing energy.
- roenxi 4y ago
  They aren't. The EU is in the news right now because they cracked down on nuclear and fossil fuels and - after succeeding - ended up in an energy crisis. You can see what countries trying to secure cheap energy do by looking at China and India - lots of coal, lots of oil, bring on as much capacity in nuclear and renewables as they can. They're playing with effectively 4x as many sources of energy as the EU despite the Europeans having a wealth and tech lead! I say 4x because renewables aren't quite a big enough energy source to break up into components.
  - Schroedingersat 4y ago