6 ms·

Caring for the only known full kākāpō feather cloak

49 points by Thevet 4y ago

JadeNB 4y ago
I'm pretty sure "Show image caption" is not part of the title …. (It's weird that the title deleted the content-ful, non-clickbait word 'known', but grabbed, I guess, an errant bit of HTML.)
- lmm 4y ago
  The HN moderators' decision process is as bizarre as it is opaque, it's not worth trying to understand.
- zerocrates 4y ago
  They probably got the title from copying the visible heading on the page, which includes the "Show image caption" icon. The removal of "known" is probably a result of "Caring for the only known full kākāpō feather cloak in the world Show image caption" being too long for an HN title.
- aaron695 4y ago
  It's copy and paste - "Caring for the only known full kākāpō feather cloak in the world Show image caption" Code - <h1 id="paragraph-30476-title" class="hero__title hero__title--small"> Caring for the only known full kākāpō feather cloak in the world</h1> .... <span class="visually-hidden">Show image caption</span> I don't think a bot would pull the span in as well. Not changed by mods (yet) - https://hackernewstitles.netlify.app/ https://hackernewstitles.netlify.app/
- dang 4y ago
  Fixed now. Submitted title was "Caring for the only full kākāpō feather cloak in the world Show image caption"
beachy 4y ago
I doubt I'll ever get to touch a kakapo, but we live in a part of New Zealand where kiwi releases happen every so often, and the kids (and bigger people) get to touch the kiwi as they are released into the wild(with radio trackers attached). Their feathers are very unusual, not feathery at all but more like a fur in texture, quite unusual, and were also used to make cloaks etc. We also have kiwi living in the surrounding bush and can hear their cries at night. A couple of years ago I found a kiwi egg lying on the ground, it from quite some time for my brain to register what a giant egg was doing. That resulted in quite a bit of administrative activity, eventually getting the egg to the department of conservation for them to analyze it's cause of demise.
- CallMeJim 4y ago
  Kiwi feathers feel a bit like stands of nylon - thick and fairly stiff. As you say, it feels very unusual!
defrost 4y ago
As a small example of what rarely happened in any British Mueseum in the past[1]: > In addition to skills sharing, one of the key aims was to include culturally appropriate care in the conservation process. PMAG was already in the process of forming a memorandum of understanding with the Museum of New Zealand Te Papa Tongarewa (Te Papa) – so they were brought on board as the third partner of the project. Awhina Tamarapa became the Māori curatorial adviser on the team. So, small baby steps. Full feather cloaks are striking when fresh and worn, eg a full emu feather cloak [2] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWpqLqSnyMc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWpqLqSnyMc [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLQ4by3lUJo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLQ4by3lUJo
peteforde 4y ago
It's telling that the British Museum doesn't address the elephant in the room: will they be returning the cloak to the Maori people? If not, why not? While it's laudible that they contribute conservation and reconstruction expertise to projects like this - they are well funded and this is in their mandate, after all - if the ultimate goal doesn't include a discussion of returning the cultural history to the people and places it was taken from, then this just more whitewashing of troubling colonial attitudes that continue to this day.
- lostlogin 4y ago
  John Oliver did a segment on this recently. The British Museum is amazing, but you don't have to dig very deep or think very hard to find some very uncomfortable truths. It's a very depressing topic. https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/oct/03/john-oliver-stolen-antiquities-western-museums https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/oct/03/john-ol...
- EdwardDiego 4y ago
  > It's telling that the British Museum doesn't address the elephant in the room: will they be returning the cloak to the Maori people? Because they're not in possession of it, another museum is. They're just helping.
- obviousquest 4y ago
  Why haven't the Maori conserved the other ones?
  - mkl 4y ago
    They probably got used until they were worn out, while this one's been safe in storage. They weren't designed and made to be museum pieces, but to be worn (not for everyday purposes so much as ceremonially as a symbol of power and respect).
- simonvc 4y ago
  This isn't an artifact that was stolen, it was bought by or given freely to a doctor who donated it to the museum in the late 1800s. All the greek and egyptian stuff should be returned though.
mkl 4y ago
Previous discussion from a few weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32884191 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32884191
emsy 4y ago
German speakers are giggling over the headline (kakapo means poopoo butt)
- HyperSane 4y ago
  Like Mr Poopy Butthole?
psychphysic 4y ago
Hot taking coming... This seems like utter nonsense? The British museum can not make up for it's I'll gotten items by having some ceremonies for a cloak. Perhaps I'm culturally ignorant. But if it wasn't for guilt why on Earth would they have ceremonies around a cloak? I suspect the Maori did not have ceremonies around their cloaks. But I guess the advisor has to show worth somehow. Still won't make up for stolen bones of Africans that were grave robbed. Or the the proceeds of military conquests and out right pilthered items they have in the collection.
- bo0O0od 4y ago
  I'm far from an expert on Maori culture but central to their worldview is the concept of "mana", which is essentially spirit. Your own mana and that of your ancestors was incredibly important, and that mana could be imbued in items. Exchanging gifts of mana was a big cultural/social tradition. It seems reasonable that a valuable and distinctive item like a feather cloack would have had a lot of significance and tradition surrounding it. That doesn't mean there were cloak specific prayers but I doubt the ceremonies were completely baseless. When they talk about the ceremonies and personify the cape (which does sound a bit odd the way it's written in the article) I'm pretty sure it's referring to the spirit of the previous owners, and I'm not surprised that Maori with a traditional sense of spirituality would find a lot of religous importance in that.
  - psychphysic 4y ago
    Seems reasonably, but you are simply assuming it's culturally appropriate. We don't know for sure. When we consider most cultures want their stuff back from rich countries museums and that is soundly ignored I suspect its a distraction.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- jterrys 4y ago
  Let me add to your hot take with my hotter take: I think it's dumb to request the British museum to return priceless 'stolen' artifacts when they were mainly gained by digging through rubble and abandoned sites anyway. And the countries that are requesting these items back lack the stability to ensure their safety and preservation. Yes, even Egypt is unsafe. As evidenced by their revolution where the Egyptian National museum was robbed, some artifacts stolen, and ancient grave sites pilfered in the last decade. Suffice to say that this situation is much worse for a lot of African countries. Is it culturally appropriate to keep these items? No, not really. But when the alternative is possible destruction, I would rather they keep them and piss everyone off.
Maursault 4y ago
There are only 252 kākāpō left.[1] Really seems like Critically Endangered Conservation Status should have more grades, as kākāpō is the same status as western gorilla with as many as 50K individuals and the vaquita estimated at less than 10 individuals. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kākāpō https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kākāpō
- thfuran 4y ago
  >estimated at less than 10 individuals. That seems more like "extinct, but hasn't yet admitted it" than endangered.

49 points by Thevet 4y ago

I'm pretty sure "Show image caption" is not part of the title …. (It's weird that the title deleted the content-ful, non-clickbait word 'known', but grabbed, I guess, an errant bit of HTML.)

lmm 4y ago
The HN moderators' decision process is as bizarre as it is opaque, it's not worth trying to understand.
zerocrates 4y ago
They probably got the title from copying the visible heading on the page, which includes the "Show image caption" icon. The removal of "known" is probably a result of "Caring for the only known full kākāpō feather cloak in the world Show image caption" being too long for an HN title.
aaron695 4y ago
It's copy and paste - "Caring for the only known full kākāpō feather cloak in the world Show image caption" Code - <h1 id="paragraph-30476-title" class="hero__title hero__title--small"> Caring for the only known full kākāpō feather cloak in the world</h1> .... <span class="visually-hidden">Show image caption</span> I don't think a bot would pull the span in as well. Not changed by mods (yet) - https://hackernewstitles.netlify.app/ https://hackernewstitles.netlify.app/
dang 4y ago
Fixed now. Submitted title was "Caring for the only full kākāpō feather cloak in the world Show image caption"

beachy 4y ago

I doubt I'll ever get to touch a kakapo, but we live in a part of New Zealand where kiwi releases happen every so often, and the kids (and bigger people) get to touch the kiwi as they are released into the wild(with radio trackers attached). Their feathers are very unusual, not feathery at all but more like a fur in texture, quite unusual, and were also used to make cloaks etc. We also have kiwi living in the surrounding bush and can hear their cries at night. A couple of years ago I found a kiwi egg lying on the ground, it from quite some time for my brain to register what a giant egg was doing. That resulted in quite a bit of administrative activity, eventually getting the egg to the department of conservation for them to analyze it's cause of demise.

CallMeJim 4y ago
Kiwi feathers feel a bit like stands of nylon - thick and fairly stiff. As you say, it feels very unusual!

defrost 4y ago

As a small example of what rarely happened in any British Mueseum in the past[1]: > In addition to skills sharing, one of the key aims was to include culturally appropriate care in the conservation process. PMAG was already in the process of forming a memorandum of understanding with the Museum of New Zealand Te Papa Tongarewa (Te Papa) – so they were brought on board as the third partner of the project. Awhina Tamarapa became the Māori curatorial adviser on the team. So, small baby steps. Full feather cloaks are striking when fresh and worn, eg a full emu feather cloak [2] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWpqLqSnyMc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWpqLqSnyMc [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLQ4by3lUJo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLQ4by3lUJo

peteforde 4y ago

It's telling that the British Museum doesn't address the elephant in the room: will they be returning the cloak to the Maori people? If not, why not? While it's laudible that they contribute conservation and reconstruction expertise to projects like this - they are well funded and this is in their mandate, after all - if the ultimate goal doesn't include a discussion of returning the cultural history to the people and places it was taken from, then this just more whitewashing of troubling colonial attitudes that continue to this day.

lostlogin 4y ago
John Oliver did a segment on this recently. The British Museum is amazing, but you don't have to dig very deep or think very hard to find some very uncomfortable truths. It's a very depressing topic. https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/oct/03/john-oliver-stolen-antiquities-western-museums https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/oct/03/john-ol...
EdwardDiego 4y ago
> It's telling that the British Museum doesn't address the elephant in the room: will they be returning the cloak to the Maori people? Because they're not in possession of it, another museum is. They're just helping.
obviousquest 4y ago
Why haven't the Maori conserved the other ones?
- mkl 4y ago
  They probably got used until they were worn out, while this one's been safe in storage. They weren't designed and made to be museum pieces, but to be worn (not for everyday purposes so much as ceremonially as a symbol of power and respect).
simonvc 4y ago
This isn't an artifact that was stolen, it was bought by or given freely to a doctor who donated it to the museum in the late 1800s. All the greek and egyptian stuff should be returned though.

mkl 4y ago

Previous discussion from a few weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32884191 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32884191

emsy 4y ago

German speakers are giggling over the headline (kakapo means poopoo butt)

HyperSane 4y ago
Like Mr Poopy Butthole?

psychphysic 4y ago

Hot taking coming... This seems like utter nonsense? The British museum can not make up for it's I'll gotten items by having some ceremonies for a cloak. Perhaps I'm culturally ignorant. But if it wasn't for guilt why on Earth would they have ceremonies around a cloak? I suspect the Maori did not have ceremonies around their cloaks. But I guess the advisor has to show worth somehow. Still won't make up for stolen bones of Africans that were grave robbed. Or the the proceeds of military conquests and out right pilthered items they have in the collection.

bo0O0od 4y ago
I'm far from an expert on Maori culture but central to their worldview is the concept of "mana", which is essentially spirit. Your own mana and that of your ancestors was incredibly important, and that mana could be imbued in items. Exchanging gifts of mana was a big cultural/social tradition. It seems reasonable that a valuable and distinctive item like a feather cloack would have had a lot of significance and tradition surrounding it. That doesn't mean there were cloak specific prayers but I doubt the ceremonies were completely baseless. When they talk about the ceremonies and personify the cape (which does sound a bit odd the way it's written in the article) I'm pretty sure it's referring to the spirit of the previous owners, and I'm not surprised that Maori with a traditional sense of spirituality would find a lot of religous importance in that.
- psychphysic 4y ago
  Seems reasonably, but you are simply assuming it's culturally appropriate. We don't know for sure. When we consider most cultures want their stuff back from rich countries museums and that is soundly ignored I suspect its a distraction.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jterrys 4y ago
Let me add to your hot take with my hotter take: I think it's dumb to request the British museum to return priceless 'stolen' artifacts when they were mainly gained by digging through rubble and abandoned sites anyway. And the countries that are requesting these items back lack the stability to ensure their safety and preservation. Yes, even Egypt is unsafe. As evidenced by their revolution where the Egyptian National museum was robbed, some artifacts stolen, and ancient grave sites pilfered in the last decade. Suffice to say that this situation is much worse for a lot of African countries. Is it culturally appropriate to keep these items? No, not really. But when the alternative is possible destruction, I would rather they keep them and piss everyone off.

Maursault 4y ago

There are only 252 kākāpō left.[1] Really seems like Critically Endangered Conservation Status should have more grades, as kākāpō is the same status as western gorilla with as many as 50K individuals and the vaquita estimated at less than 10 individuals. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kākāpō https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kākāpō

thfuran 4y ago
>estimated at less than 10 individuals. That seems more like "extinct, but hasn't yet admitted it" than endangered.