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Having visited Bhutan and spent a considerable amount of time there, I've noticed the locals aren't that much happier than most other places in the world. It's

Having visited Bhutan and spent a considerable amount of time there, I've noticed the locals aren't that much happier than most other places in the world. It's difficult to be happy when you have to constantly worry about how to put food on the table. I've gotten swindled enough times in Bhutan, however not as much as in certain "shit-hole" cities that I shall not name. The whole "GNH" concept was created by McKinsey, contracted by Bhutan - I know the leads on that project. While it does bring in some level of national identity to rally around, I think the primary benefit it brings is in marketing. There are some meditation centers in Bhutan that charge more than $5K/day, targeted towards the extremely rich who have lost a sense of peace in their pursuit of wealth. This, of course, is a grand con - there's no happiness you're going to find in Bhutan that you can't find in your immediate surroundings. New Zealand, on the other hand, I feel is doing a lot better. There's a general acceptance that communing with nature is important, while at the same time, they readily embrace modern comforts and continue building their economy. They're also attempting to build a better way to interact with natives and are creating programs such as EHF (ehf.org) to attempt to tackle the grand planet-wide problems, with impact as a focus. True impact is impossible to measure with just any one number. Anyone who attempts to put a number to this will run into the trouble of that number getting gamed.

la64710 4y ago
Very well articulated. Thanks for sharing.
gruez 4y ago
>The whole "GNH" concept was created by McKinsey, contracted by Bhutan - I know the leads on that project. source? I searched around couldn't find anything resembling that. The closest I found was one source[1] which stated the king of Bhutan used the phrase "Gross National Happiness" in a 1971 speech, and that the country paid McKinsey $9M for a report in 2009[2]. [1] https://publicism.info/economics/invention/10.html https://publicism.info/economics/invention/10.html [2] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bhutan/modernizing-bhutan-questions-where-happiness-lies-idUKTRE5BH03420091218 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bhutan/modernizing-bhutan...
parabyl 4y ago
As an aside, I still can't beleive we're using 'shit-hole' in this way because that man said it once. I myself am guilty, even referring to my own home country at time as such without realizing it. But back to the topic, I think you're right about GNH and it's implications, especially when compared to Aotearoa and their efforts in establishing a more genuine level (rather than measure) of a literal 'national happiness'. As a last touch, your comment (both words used, and in what it discusses) is comically ironic in that McKinsey is currently under investigation in my country for advising in a project that ended up landing us a few million dollars poorer and without a functioning public transport system that we could genuinely really benefit from right at the moment.
lemming 4y ago
As a New Zealander, I can say that the one thing NZ does really well is marketing, both externally to foreigners and internally to our own citizens. While it is true that NZers love getting out in nature, when it comes to protecting it we're frankly pretty terrible (see here: https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2021/this-is-how-it-ends-extinction-documentary https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2021/this-is-how-it-ends-ex...). We have the highest proportion of threatened native species in the world, our fishing industry is out of control, and intensive agriculture is destroying our natural environment (65% of our rivers are considered unswimmable). Our climate record is appalling and not getting much better (see: https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/new-zealand https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/new-zealand). Jacinda Ardern gets a lot of press for her climate-friendly rhetoric, but the fact is that the UK under Boris Johnson did immeasurably better on climate action than we have under her. Our ruling Labour party (supposedly-but-not-really left-ish) does talk a lot about wellbeing budgets, but both our major parties are stuck in a neo-liberal trap where they refuse to allow national debt to get over 30% of GDP (crazy low by international standards), and also refuse to allow the tax ratio to get over that figure. This has meant that all our public services have been systematically underfunded for three decades, which has had a terrible impact on our poor. We like to smugly think that our Aussie neighbours are run by a bunch of knuckle-dragging troglodytes, but they have a vastly fairer tax system (see: https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/07-09-2022/lets-copy-and-paste-australias-tax-code https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/07-09-2022/lets-copy-and-p...) and welfare system. The British High Commissioner recently said it very well (see: https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/300178615/overseas-doubts-grow-about-new-zealands-climate-commitment https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/300178615/o...): "You have Scandinavian ambitions in terms of quality of life and public services, but a US attitude to tax. The brand 100% Pure New Zealand lulled many into a false sense of security, when the environmental reality is far more challenging". Add to that the least affordable housing in the developed world (which politicians of all stripes refuse to touch), and the wellbeing of our less well-off is in a terrible state. If you are lucky enough to own a house, and have some money, you can live in a little bubble and pretend it's not happening to others here, but sadly you would be mistaken. God forbid you might need some of the dustier corners of the health or education systems, like having a kid with special needs. Is this happening everywhere? Yes, it is, but I think there's a general perception that New Zealand is somehow better than a lot of other places, when in a lot of concrete, tangible, measurable ways it's actually significantly worse than most countries that we would like to compare ourselves to. I would struggle to recommend NZ as a place to move to for expats.

la64710 4y ago

Very well articulated. Thanks for sharing.

gruez 4y ago

>The whole "GNH" concept was created by McKinsey, contracted by Bhutan - I know the leads on that project. source? I searched around couldn't find anything resembling that. The closest I found was one source[1] which stated the king of Bhutan used the phrase "Gross National Happiness" in a 1971 speech, and that the country paid McKinsey $9M for a report in 2009[2]. [1] https://publicism.info/economics/invention/10.html https://publicism.info/economics/invention/10.html [2] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bhutan/modernizing-bhutan-questions-where-happiness-lies-idUKTRE5BH03420091218 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bhutan/modernizing-bhutan...

parabyl 4y ago

As an aside, I still can't beleive we're using 'shit-hole' in this way because that man said it once. I myself am guilty, even referring to my own home country at time as such without realizing it. But back to the topic, I think you're right about GNH and it's implications, especially when compared to Aotearoa and their efforts in establishing a more genuine level (rather than measure) of a literal 'national happiness'. As a last touch, your comment (both words used, and in what it discusses) is comically ironic in that McKinsey is currently under investigation in my country for advising in a project that ended up landing us a few million dollars poorer and without a functioning public transport system that we could genuinely really benefit from right at the moment.

lemming 4y ago

As a New Zealander, I can say that the one thing NZ does really well is marketing, both externally to foreigners and internally to our own citizens. While it is true that NZers love getting out in nature, when it comes to protecting it we're frankly pretty terrible (see here: https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2021/this-is-how-it-ends-extinction-documentary https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2021/this-is-how-it-ends-ex...). We have the highest proportion of threatened native species in the world, our fishing industry is out of control, and intensive agriculture is destroying our natural environment (65% of our rivers are considered unswimmable). Our climate record is appalling and not getting much better (see: https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/new-zealand https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/new-zealand). Jacinda Ardern gets a lot of press for her climate-friendly rhetoric, but the fact is that the UK under Boris Johnson did immeasurably better on climate action than we have under her. Our ruling Labour party (supposedly-but-not-really left-ish) does talk a lot about wellbeing budgets, but both our major parties are stuck in a neo-liberal trap where they refuse to allow national debt to get over 30% of GDP (crazy low by international standards), and also refuse to allow the tax ratio to get over that figure. This has meant that all our public services have been systematically underfunded for three decades, which has had a terrible impact on our poor. We like to smugly think that our Aussie neighbours are run by a bunch of knuckle-dragging troglodytes, but they have a vastly fairer tax system (see: https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/07-09-2022/lets-copy-and-paste-australias-tax-code https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/07-09-2022/lets-copy-and-p...) and welfare system. The British High Commissioner recently said it very well (see: https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/300178615/overseas-doubts-grow-about-new-zealands-climate-commitment https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/300178615/o...): "You have Scandinavian ambitions in terms of quality of life and public services, but a US attitude to tax. The brand 100% Pure New Zealand lulled many into a false sense of security, when the environmental reality is far more challenging". Add to that the least affordable housing in the developed world (which politicians of all stripes refuse to touch), and the wellbeing of our less well-off is in a terrible state. If you are lucky enough to own a house, and have some money, you can live in a little bubble and pretend it's not happening to others here, but sadly you would be mistaken. God forbid you might need some of the dustier corners of the health or education systems, like having a kid with special needs. Is this happening everywhere? Yes, it is, but I think there's a general perception that New Zealand is somehow better than a lot of other places, when in a lot of concrete, tangible, measurable ways it's actually significantly worse than most countries that we would like to compare ourselves to. I would struggle to recommend NZ as a place to move to for expats.