3 ms·

Reading an earlier thread on Perl I was thinking about how concepts, language and behaviour relate (as Wittgenstein and Ayer might have it). Someone mentioned

Reading an earlier thread on Perl I was thinking about how concepts, language and behaviour relate (as Wittgenstein and Ayer might have it). Someone mentioned how, as a Python user, they barely had to think about pointers/references. Things get magically referenced when needed. Seems like progress. When concepts get coded into a language, in this case "economics" (which is a tool for trying to see the world), they put down roots. Other concepts "hang off" them. So, we could certainly try to supplant GDP as a metric. But then what of all the other economic structures that people have built on GDP? Who will let go of those? You have to tear down entire branches of thought and replace them with new utility concepts that make using old ones as anachronistic as using pointers in Python.

dragonwriter 4y ago
> So, we could certainly try to supplant GDP as a metric. This is very apparent, because it was only about 30 years ago that GDP itself replaced GNP as the preferred metric for the same purposes in the US. The article mentions the use of GDP internationally for longer, but the US preferred GNP until 1991. Its also worth noting that the creator of the GDP, a decade before it became dominant (internationally), also warned against overfocusing on it as a measure of welfare, in terms that really apply to any simple unidimensional measure: “The valuable capacity of the human mind to simplify a complex situation in a compact characterization becomes dangerous when not controlled in terms of definitely stated criteria. With quantitative measurements especially, the definiteness of the result suggests, often misleadingly, a precision and simplicity in the outlines of the object measured. Measurements of national income are subject to this type of illusion and resulting abuse, especially since they deal with matters that are the center of conflict of opposing social groups where the effectiveness of an argument is often contingent upon oversimplification” [0] The state of the economy is complex and multidimensional, and we need a set of measures which reflect that. [0] https://fraser.stlouisfed.org/title/national-income-1929-1932-971 https://fraser.stlouisfed.org/title/national-income-1929-193... , pp. 5-6
- pishpash 4y ago
  Has anyone used the growth of national wealth, or is that equivalent to GNI/GNP somehow? (I don't think so but maybe?)
- danielmarkbruce 4y ago
  A a set of measurements is required in many places and sadly it's missed in those places too. Humans love simple explanations, simple measurements, simple models, simple stories, anything which fits in our tiny brains without too much effort. Whether or not those measurements/explanations/models/stories represent reality sufficiently to be useful appears to be beside the point.
- hnews_account_1 4y ago
  GNP and GDP are very close measures. If people spend a few minutes reading instead of trying their hardest to comment first with what little knowledge of economics they have rattling around their skull, they’d know that GNP does not make any sense in the modern economy.
  - nonrandomstring 4y ago
    I'd argue that most of modern economics does not make any sense in the modern economy :)

dragonwriter 4y ago

> So, we could certainly try to supplant GDP as a metric. This is very apparent, because it was only about 30 years ago that GDP itself replaced GNP as the preferred metric for the same purposes in the US. The article mentions the use of GDP internationally for longer, but the US preferred GNP until 1991. Its also worth noting that the creator of the GDP, a decade before it became dominant (internationally), also warned against overfocusing on it as a measure of welfare, in terms that really apply to any simple unidimensional measure: “The valuable capacity of the human mind to simplify a complex situation in a compact characterization becomes dangerous when not controlled in terms of definitely stated criteria. With quantitative measurements especially, the definiteness of the result suggests, often misleadingly, a precision and simplicity in the outlines of the object measured. Measurements of national income are subject to this type of illusion and resulting abuse, especially since they deal with matters that are the center of conflict of opposing social groups where the effectiveness of an argument is often contingent upon oversimplification” [0] The state of the economy is complex and multidimensional, and we need a set of measures which reflect that. [0] https://fraser.stlouisfed.org/title/national-income-1929-1932-971 https://fraser.stlouisfed.org/title/national-income-1929-193... , pp. 5-6

pishpash 4y ago
Has anyone used the growth of national wealth, or is that equivalent to GNI/GNP somehow? (I don't think so but maybe?)
danielmarkbruce 4y ago
A a set of measurements is required in many places and sadly it's missed in those places too. Humans love simple explanations, simple measurements, simple models, simple stories, anything which fits in our tiny brains without too much effort. Whether or not those measurements/explanations/models/stories represent reality sufficiently to be useful appears to be beside the point.
hnews_account_1 4y ago
GNP and GDP are very close measures. If people spend a few minutes reading instead of trying their hardest to comment first with what little knowledge of economics they have rattling around their skull, they’d know that GNP does not make any sense in the modern economy.
- nonrandomstring 4y ago
  I'd argue that most of modern economics does not make any sense in the modern economy :)