4 ms·

> I know the market rate for a candidate that is just over-the-bar for my role, and I know that market rate for a super-star who can not only do this role, but

> I know the market rate for a candidate that is just over-the-bar for my role, and I know that market rate for a super-star who can not only do this role, but is probably already capable of doing the next one. Those are going to be two vastly different numbers. Which one are you looking to pay for? If you have budget for a superstar, why would you settle for just-over-the-bar talent? I kind of find myself suspecting that what you're really hoping for is that you'll find someone who has superstar talent, but doesn't know their market rate, so you can hire them at just-over-the-bar money.

testACCT321 4y ago
im3w1l 4y ago
Well maybe the goal is increase features / month, and they want to hire a few people to do that. A just-over-the-bar will be a small increase, and a superstar will be a big increase. They don't particularly care about the mix as long as the total is big enough.
ebiester 4y ago
It's so rare for a superstar not to know their market rate as to be unlikely. What I can see happening is that more corporations start doing SDE 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9/10/11/12, with different ranges, and most of the interviews are at 7-10 and are "releveled" at 3-5. We will end up in the same place we started but with more games.
- jameshart 4y ago
  > It's so rare for a superstar not to know their market rate as to be unlikely You're no-true-scotsmanning 'superstar' here to assume, I suspect, that one of the attributes of a superstar is being in the know, and so on top of the industry and job market that they are aware how much their skills are worth. For a certain class of superstar that may be true, but there are many, many very strong developers who are working in backwater job markets and have not looked for jobs in a while who literally have no idea what typical total comp offers from serious tech companies in hot markets are like. There are plenty of high skilled people who have been blown away by an offer they thought was incredibly generous, only to discover they were actually lowballed.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    > There are plenty of high skilled people who have been blown away by an offer they thought was incredibly generous, only to discover they were actually lowballed. Been there done that - Not incredibly low balled. But probably 10%. But as you learn the industry, have a network of former coworkers who don’t mind sharing salaries and external recruiters, it gets easier and you just job hop. This is mostly on the enterprise/Corp dev side of development where most developers work. It’s quite easy to find out compensation for the larger more well known tech companies at places like levels.fyi. Before anyone thinks I’m putting down “enterprise developers”, that’s what I did my entire career from 1996-2020. For all intents and purposes, that’s still what I do. I now also write a shit ton of yaml, HCL, PowerPoint slides, and PRFAQs at $BigTech and “consult”.
- pixl97 4y ago
  >It's so rare for a superstar not to know their market rate as to be unlikely. And you're getting this data from, where exactly?
  - scarface74 4y ago
    How can you be a “superstar” who kept up with relevant industry trends and not keep up with compensation trends?
jjav 4y ago
> Which one are you looking to pay for? If you have budget for a superstar, why would you settle for just-over-the-bar talent? Having done a fair amount of hiring over decades... because you don't know who will show up. The minimum bar of the job description is who I need at least. But occasionally someone shows up who is insanely perfect, hitting on every optional wishlist item. I'll pay a lot more for that person, but I can't count they will apply because I can't wait a year for the perfect person to show up. So I'm also happy to hire someone at the minimum bar if that's how it goes.

testACCT321 4y ago

im3w1l 4y ago

Well maybe the goal is increase features / month, and they want to hire a few people to do that. A just-over-the-bar will be a small increase, and a superstar will be a big increase. They don't particularly care about the mix as long as the total is big enough.

ebiester 4y ago

It's so rare for a superstar not to know their market rate as to be unlikely. What I can see happening is that more corporations start doing SDE 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9/10/11/12, with different ranges, and most of the interviews are at 7-10 and are "releveled" at 3-5. We will end up in the same place we started but with more games.

jameshart 4y ago
> It's so rare for a superstar not to know their market rate as to be unlikely You're no-true-scotsmanning 'superstar' here to assume, I suspect, that one of the attributes of a superstar is being in the know, and so on top of the industry and job market that they are aware how much their skills are worth. For a certain class of superstar that may be true, but there are many, many very strong developers who are working in backwater job markets and have not looked for jobs in a while who literally have no idea what typical total comp offers from serious tech companies in hot markets are like. There are plenty of high skilled people who have been blown away by an offer they thought was incredibly generous, only to discover they were actually lowballed.
- scarface74 4y ago
  > There are plenty of high skilled people who have been blown away by an offer they thought was incredibly generous, only to discover they were actually lowballed. Been there done that - Not incredibly low balled. But probably 10%. But as you learn the industry, have a network of former coworkers who don’t mind sharing salaries and external recruiters, it gets easier and you just job hop. This is mostly on the enterprise/Corp dev side of development where most developers work. It’s quite easy to find out compensation for the larger more well known tech companies at places like levels.fyi. Before anyone thinks I’m putting down “enterprise developers”, that’s what I did my entire career from 1996-2020. For all intents and purposes, that’s still what I do. I now also write a shit ton of yaml, HCL, PowerPoint slides, and PRFAQs at $BigTech and “consult”.
pixl97 4y ago
>It's so rare for a superstar not to know their market rate as to be unlikely. And you're getting this data from, where exactly?
- scarface74 4y ago
  How can you be a “superstar” who kept up with relevant industry trends and not keep up with compensation trends?

jjav 4y ago

> Which one are you looking to pay for? If you have budget for a superstar, why would you settle for just-over-the-bar talent? Having done a fair amount of hiring over decades... because you don't know who will show up. The minimum bar of the job description is who I need at least. But occasionally someone shows up who is insanely perfect, hitting on every optional wishlist item. I'll pay a lot more for that person, but I can't count they will apply because I can't wait a year for the perfect person to show up. So I'm also happy to hire someone at the minimum bar if that's how it goes.