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Amazes me how closely these forms of transportation are policed when the average hood height of pickup trucks I see everywhere equals or surpasses the height of

Amazes me how closely these forms of transportation are policed when the average hood height of pickup trucks I see everywhere equals or surpasses the height of most women I know. If you had to design a machine to optimally kill pedestrians I don't know how you could do better, beyond appending a thresher to the front. The engineers who designed these should be ashamed of themselves. Living in Atlanta generally has really accelerated my deep dislike of car-centered urban design. It will take a lot more than unbanning electric scooters to change things, but at least it's a step.

Tempest1981 4y ago
For folks who fantasize about driving long-haul diesel trucks, I suspect.
TulliusCicero 4y ago
Yeah, it's pretty crazy how desensitized we collectively are to cars constantly killing people. Yes scooters blocking sidewalks is a problem, but cars straight up killing people is clearly like 1000x worse.
- conductr 4y ago
  Not desensitized just different stats and impacting how they are seen as tangible. For example, the auto stats translate into me, a mid-40s adult living in a very car dependent part of the US, having only known of a few people to die my entire life (first hand, actual people I knew - was in high school when I had a much larger social network, so was statistically more likely to encounter this back then.) I don't know many people that have been severely injured either. Yet, those scooters began and instant and constant nuisance that many people across various social groups share. I'm not arguing against your point, just saying how perceptions get skewed based on how frequently you encounter them. It's easy for people to think driving is kind of safe when you and everyone you know drives daily without much consequence. The real statistics and magnitude (death vs annoyance) don't really mean much.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  > Yeah, it's pretty crazy how desensitized we collectively are to cars constantly killing people. A bit hyperbolic, don't you think? The average is 1 for every 100,000,000 miles driven. And more like 1 in 600,000,000 if you are talking about people killed by cars who were not themselves in said car.
  - rockinghigh 4y ago
    It's 43k deaths per year in the US.
    - rootusrootus 4y ago
      One time, in 2021, a notable per-capita jump.
      - TulliusCicero 4y ago
        Before that it was still in the mid to high 30 thousands for a while. Still terrible!
      - rockinghigh 4y ago
        And 2.1 million emergency visits per year for injuries related to motor vehicle crashes.
  - TulliusCicero 4y ago
    Cars are the #2 cause of death for kids, edged out only by guns: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmc2201761 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmc2201761 We can see by comparing the US to peer nations that most of these deaths are preventable -- Sweden, where Vision Zero originated, has like 80% fewer traffic fatalities. We just don't have the political will to do it. The very fact that you think this is hyperbolic is what I'm talking about. 40,000 dead in the US each year and the response is a collective shrug.
    - rootusrootus 4y ago
- colinmhayes 4y ago
  https://imgur.com/gallery/pR30ey1 https://imgur.com/gallery/pR30ey1
quxpar 4y ago
Indeed, if self-driving cars killed 1,000 people a year they would immediately be banned, but 30x that in human-caused fatalities and nobody bats an eye. We have created a culture that idolizes the personal freedom of the automobile while ignoring every externalized cost it dumps onto the general population.
- giraffe_lady 4y ago
  It mostly puts the risk and consequences on the elderly, disabled, and impoverished. Which is evil, but socially acceptable and with many other strong precedents in the US.
  - robocat 4y ago
    > It mostly puts the risk and consequences on the elderly, disabled, and impoverished. Citation please? I looked for 10 minutes, but couldn't find anything that backed your assertion. I did find: * "People over the age of 65 made up 19 percent of all pedestrian fatalities in 2015." compared with 15% of population over 65. * twice as many males die as females * "In 34 percent of these accidents, the pedestrian registered a blood alcohol concentration of at least 0.08" https://pennygeeks.com/legal-resources/statistics/pedestrian-accidents/ https://pennygeeks.com/legal-resources/statistics/pedestrian...
    - giraffe_lady 4y ago
      I originally found this out from the bibliography of a book I no longer have access to so can't link the specific studies I was thinking of. But I also googled this for mere seconds and came across just dozens of similar ones so I do kind of question your intent or at least motivation here. Anyway just for example all off the first page of google results for "pedestrian injuries by income": https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1361920922001225 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S13619... https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2021/07/02/low-income-people-of-color-bear-brunt-of-rising-pedestrian-deaths https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/sta... https://www.cmap.illinois.gov/updates/all/-/asset_publisher/UIMfSLnFfMB6/content/pedestrian-fatalities-higher-in-lower-income-neighborhoods https://www.cmap.illinois.gov/updates/all/-/asset_publisher/... https://johnston-lawfirm.com/new-study-shows-lower-income-neighborhoods-most-at-risk-for-pedestrian-accident-deaths/ https://johnston-lawfirm.com/new-study-shows-lower-income-ne... https://www.saferoutespartnership.org/resources/research/poor-neighborhoods-pedestrian-death https://www.saferoutespartnership.org/resources/research/poo... Similar results when looking for disability too. Age I'm not following up on right now for time reasons but since the elderly are more likely than average to be either disabled or impoverished it almost doesn't matter. What's your goal on bringing attention to the BAC of the pedestrians? People are allowed to drink, even be drunk. Is "drinking and walking" to be a crime too? Road safety needs to account for all conditions and decisions likely to be encountered by drivers, including drunk pedestrians just as much as children and wheelchair users.
rootusrootus 4y ago
> the average hood height of pickup trucks Is about 55 inches for a current HD pickup, or 9 inches shorter than the average female human. The hood height is a bit lower for the more common half-ton pickups.
twobitshifter 4y ago
I tried to google scooter accidents in Atlanta. I didn’t find anything about the scooter rider hitting pedestrians, instead I found examples of people on scooters being run over by cars.
- ahelwer 4y ago
  Of course, you bring this up and people will start talking about all the times they were "buzzed" by someone on a scooter, an event which might have led to some bruises or, at worst, a broken wrist. Never mind being buzzed by a car when on a bicycle - a ubiquitous event which can easily end with you losing your balance, falling under the rear wheels, and getting turned into strawberry jam.

Tempest1981 4y ago

For folks who fantasize about driving long-haul diesel trucks, I suspect.

TulliusCicero 4y ago

Yeah, it's pretty crazy how desensitized we collectively are to cars constantly killing people. Yes scooters blocking sidewalks is a problem, but cars straight up killing people is clearly like 1000x worse.

conductr 4y ago
Not desensitized just different stats and impacting how they are seen as tangible. For example, the auto stats translate into me, a mid-40s adult living in a very car dependent part of the US, having only known of a few people to die my entire life (first hand, actual people I knew - was in high school when I had a much larger social network, so was statistically more likely to encounter this back then.) I don't know many people that have been severely injured either. Yet, those scooters began and instant and constant nuisance that many people across various social groups share. I'm not arguing against your point, just saying how perceptions get skewed based on how frequently you encounter them. It's easy for people to think driving is kind of safe when you and everyone you know drives daily without much consequence. The real statistics and magnitude (death vs annoyance) don't really mean much.
rootusrootus 4y ago
> Yeah, it's pretty crazy how desensitized we collectively are to cars constantly killing people. A bit hyperbolic, don't you think? The average is 1 for every 100,000,000 miles driven. And more like 1 in 600,000,000 if you are talking about people killed by cars who were not themselves in said car.
- rockinghigh 4y ago
  It's 43k deaths per year in the US.
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    One time, in 2021, a notable per-capita jump.
    - TulliusCicero 4y ago
      Before that it was still in the mid to high 30 thousands for a while. Still terrible!
    - rockinghigh 4y ago
      And 2.1 million emergency visits per year for injuries related to motor vehicle crashes.
- TulliusCicero 4y ago
  Cars are the #2 cause of death for kids, edged out only by guns: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmc2201761 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmc2201761 We can see by comparing the US to peer nations that most of these deaths are preventable -- Sweden, where Vision Zero originated, has like 80% fewer traffic fatalities. We just don't have the political will to do it. The very fact that you think this is hyperbolic is what I'm talking about. 40,000 dead in the US each year and the response is a collective shrug.
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
colinmhayes 4y ago
https://imgur.com/gallery/pR30ey1 https://imgur.com/gallery/pR30ey1

quxpar 4y ago

Indeed, if self-driving cars killed 1,000 people a year they would immediately be banned, but 30x that in human-caused fatalities and nobody bats an eye. We have created a culture that idolizes the personal freedom of the automobile while ignoring every externalized cost it dumps onto the general population.

giraffe_lady 4y ago
It mostly puts the risk and consequences on the elderly, disabled, and impoverished. Which is evil, but socially acceptable and with many other strong precedents in the US.
- robocat 4y ago
  > It mostly puts the risk and consequences on the elderly, disabled, and impoverished. Citation please? I looked for 10 minutes, but couldn't find anything that backed your assertion. I did find: * "People over the age of 65 made up 19 percent of all pedestrian fatalities in 2015." compared with 15% of population over 65. * twice as many males die as females * "In 34 percent of these accidents, the pedestrian registered a blood alcohol concentration of at least 0.08" https://pennygeeks.com/legal-resources/statistics/pedestrian-accidents/ https://pennygeeks.com/legal-resources/statistics/pedestrian...
  - giraffe_lady 4y ago
    I originally found this out from the bibliography of a book I no longer have access to so can't link the specific studies I was thinking of. But I also googled this for mere seconds and came across just dozens of similar ones so I do kind of question your intent or at least motivation here. Anyway just for example all off the first page of google results for "pedestrian injuries by income": https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1361920922001225 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S13619... https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2021/07/02/low-income-people-of-color-bear-brunt-of-rising-pedestrian-deaths https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/sta... https://www.cmap.illinois.gov/updates/all/-/asset_publisher/UIMfSLnFfMB6/content/pedestrian-fatalities-higher-in-lower-income-neighborhoods https://www.cmap.illinois.gov/updates/all/-/asset_publisher/... https://johnston-lawfirm.com/new-study-shows-lower-income-neighborhoods-most-at-risk-for-pedestrian-accident-deaths/ https://johnston-lawfirm.com/new-study-shows-lower-income-ne... https://www.saferoutespartnership.org/resources/research/poor-neighborhoods-pedestrian-death https://www.saferoutespartnership.org/resources/research/poo... Similar results when looking for disability too. Age I'm not following up on right now for time reasons but since the elderly are more likely than average to be either disabled or impoverished it almost doesn't matter. What's your goal on bringing attention to the BAC of the pedestrians? People are allowed to drink, even be drunk. Is "drinking and walking" to be a crime too? Road safety needs to account for all conditions and decisions likely to be encountered by drivers, including drunk pedestrians just as much as children and wheelchair users.

rootusrootus 4y ago

> the average hood height of pickup trucks Is about 55 inches for a current HD pickup, or 9 inches shorter than the average female human. The hood height is a bit lower for the more common half-ton pickups.

twobitshifter 4y ago

I tried to google scooter accidents in Atlanta. I didn’t find anything about the scooter rider hitting pedestrians, instead I found examples of people on scooters being run over by cars.

ahelwer 4y ago
Of course, you bring this up and people will start talking about all the times they were "buzzed" by someone on a scooter, an event which might have led to some bruises or, at worst, a broken wrist. Never mind being buzzed by a car when on a bicycle - a ubiquitous event which can easily end with you losing your balance, falling under the rear wheels, and getting turned into strawberry jam.