5 ms·

The most likely reason would be to neutralize us before we can become a threat far far in the future. Subjugation could come in subtler forms, like in the boo

by vhold 4y ago

The most likely reason would be to neutralize us before we can become a threat far far in the future. Subjugation could come in subtler forms, like in the book The Three Body problem where the aliens halt human scientific progress by stealthily interfering with science.

wing-_-nuts 4y ago
I've only made it part way through that series, but I also thought the premise there is silly. If you're a civilization capable of travelling hundreds or thousands of lightyears, you are, by definition a space native species whose natural habitat is the ships you build. Why spend such extraordinary amounts of time and energy when you could simply deconstruct a few lifeless rocks in your solar system? The universe is completely abundant with every element you could ever need, and life is so rare and precious.
- goatlover 4y ago
  The premise is the Dark Forest Theory where alien life doesn't share any evolutionary or cultural history (therefore intent is unknown), and technology advances fairly rapidly beyond a certain point, so other races become a potential threat. To survive the Dark Forest, it's best to assume hostility and either hide or attack first. Most attacks are done remotely with advanced physics instead of sending an invasion force. The Dark Forest is full of war and genocide, because most races reach the same conclusion. Take out the other before they can take you out. Or keep quite. Humans seem to be naive in that regard, doing neither.
  - krinchan 4y ago
    Or...you can see Dark Forest theory for what it actually is: PRC propaganda. It's fascist projection, applied on a universal scale. EDIT: To expound upon this, I'm not really trashing Dark Forest theory. I mean, it's possible. But I find it to be deeply rooted in a particular brand of game theory that is convenient. I also find it's easier to justify genocide and other such things here on earth if you pretend the entire universe is out there doing the same thing. As such, I hold the entire theory as suspect and someone trying to justify a particular mode of human existence. This extends deeper into the trilogy as women continually are painted as too soft and emotionally empathetic to make the cold hard decisions that will kill many humans but ensure the survival of the race. This is a Very Big PRC Thing. "Someone must make tough, manly, destructive decisions and you will suffer because of those decisions. However, they are for the Greater Good of our Nation." It's hard to take the theory seriously when it conveniently justifies the entire history of the PRC.
    - generalizations 4y ago
      It's not propaganda or fascism, it's game theory. Why are you throwing around labels like that? It does nothing for the conversation.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      Is this PRC-specific somehow? "Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country." "All power to the Soviets." I suspect most countries have some version of the same at some point in their history, encouraging their citizens to subjugate their needs/desires to those of the collective.
    - Apocryphon 4y ago
      The theory existed before the novel, and the first book in the trilogy did not shy away from unflattering portrayals of PRC history.
      - messe 4y ago
        Interesting fact about that, those chapters are at different locations in the book depending on whether you are reading the original or the English translation. In the original, they’re closer to the middle of the book, in the hope that they might evade the notice of censors. Whereas in the translation (at least into English), they were moved to the beginning. I can’t remember where I read this, but I think it may have been an interview with either Liu Cixin or the translator Ken Liu in Clarkesworld.
        Apocryphon 4y ago
        Really interested in how those scenes will be portrayed in the screen adaptations of the novel, if they'll appear at all.
    - cscheid 4y ago
svieira 4y ago
My favorite version of "what would drive interactions between alien species" is "The Cold Equations" in The Eschaton Sequence (starting with Count to a Trillion).
- Narishma 4y ago
  You might want to mention the author's name (John C. Wright), because there's another Eschaton Sequence by a different author.
dctoedt 4y ago
> The Three Body problem where the aliens halt human scientific progress by stealthily interfering with science. I remember reading a sci-fi short story (this was in the 1960s) in which a scientist started to suspect that hidden, hostile aliens were behind the tendency of productive researchers to get diverted into bureaucratic meetings. A couple of Google searches didn't produce a title. Maybe Theodore Sturgeon?

by vhold 4y ago

wing-_-nuts 4y ago

I've only made it part way through that series, but I also thought the premise there is silly. If you're a civilization capable of travelling hundreds or thousands of lightyears, you are, by definition a space native species whose natural habitat is the ships you build. Why spend such extraordinary amounts of time and energy when you could simply deconstruct a few lifeless rocks in your solar system? The universe is completely abundant with every element you could ever need, and life is so rare and precious.

goatlover 4y ago
The premise is the Dark Forest Theory where alien life doesn't share any evolutionary or cultural history (therefore intent is unknown), and technology advances fairly rapidly beyond a certain point, so other races become a potential threat. To survive the Dark Forest, it's best to assume hostility and either hide or attack first. Most attacks are done remotely with advanced physics instead of sending an invasion force. The Dark Forest is full of war and genocide, because most races reach the same conclusion. Take out the other before they can take you out. Or keep quite. Humans seem to be naive in that regard, doing neither.
- krinchan 4y ago
  Or...you can see Dark Forest theory for what it actually is: PRC propaganda. It's fascist projection, applied on a universal scale. EDIT: To expound upon this, I'm not really trashing Dark Forest theory. I mean, it's possible. But I find it to be deeply rooted in a particular brand of game theory that is convenient. I also find it's easier to justify genocide and other such things here on earth if you pretend the entire universe is out there doing the same thing. As such, I hold the entire theory as suspect and someone trying to justify a particular mode of human existence. This extends deeper into the trilogy as women continually are painted as too soft and emotionally empathetic to make the cold hard decisions that will kill many humans but ensure the survival of the race. This is a Very Big PRC Thing. "Someone must make tough, manly, destructive decisions and you will suffer because of those decisions. However, they are for the Greater Good of our Nation." It's hard to take the theory seriously when it conveniently justifies the entire history of the PRC.
  - generalizations 4y ago
    It's not propaganda or fascism, it's game theory. Why are you throwing around labels like that? It does nothing for the conversation.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    Is this PRC-specific somehow? "Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country." "All power to the Soviets." I suspect most countries have some version of the same at some point in their history, encouraging their citizens to subjugate their needs/desires to those of the collective.
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    The theory existed before the novel, and the first book in the trilogy did not shy away from unflattering portrayals of PRC history.
    - messe 4y ago
      Interesting fact about that, those chapters are at different locations in the book depending on whether you are reading the original or the English translation. In the original, they’re closer to the middle of the book, in the hope that they might evade the notice of censors. Whereas in the translation (at least into English), they were moved to the beginning. I can’t remember where I read this, but I think it may have been an interview with either Liu Cixin or the translator Ken Liu in Clarkesworld.
      - Apocryphon 4y ago
        Really interested in how those scenes will be portrayed in the screen adaptations of the novel, if they'll appear at all.
  - cscheid 4y ago

svieira 4y ago

My favorite version of "what would drive interactions between alien species" is "The Cold Equations" in The Eschaton Sequence (starting with Count to a Trillion).

Narishma 4y ago
You might want to mention the author's name (John C. Wright), because there's another Eschaton Sequence by a different author.

dctoedt 4y ago

> The Three Body problem where the aliens halt human scientific progress by stealthily interfering with science. I remember reading a sci-fi short story (this was in the 1960s) in which a scientist started to suspect that hidden, hostile aliens were behind the tendency of productive researchers to get diverted into bureaucratic meetings. A couple of Google searches didn't produce a title. Maybe Theodore Sturgeon?