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> I find it interesting that so many humans assume that since we can chat with one another, aliens somehow are supposed to show up and chat with us. It's all ab

> I find it interesting that so many humans assume that since we can chat with one another, aliens somehow are supposed to show up and chat with us. It's all about us. If such a thing happened, the history of massively-different cultures interacting on Earth is not a positive one. We do have terrestrial aliens here on Earth and we are trying to chat with them. Dolphins, Gorillas, Chimps, Bonobos, Crows, Killer Whales... there is evidence for all of these species having varying degrees of language, culture, problem solving capabilities. Some of them, like Dolphins, sure seem damned close to our own capabilities with likely fully formed languages. We've been trying to decipher their language for 50 years with almost no success. With many of these species we've figured out pretty rudimentary and simplistic communication modes, but they clearly have much more complex communication structures among themselves and we've come nowhere close to deciphering them. That alone tells you how difficult it's going to be to learn to talk with extraterrestrial aliens. Even our near cousins, we struggle to communicate with. If we're examining our behavior as an analogy for the ET's however, it would suggest that either no one's around, or those who are around are so advanced that they don't think we're worth the effort to communicate with. Because we're definitely trying to communicate with the species we're aware of that we think have language. Of course, many of the species on that list were only added relatively recently (Crows, for example).

qez 4y ago
> Some of them, like Dolphins, sure seem damned close to our own capabilities with likely fully formed languages ... Because we're definitely trying to communicate with the species we're aware of that we think have language. This is highly doubtful. Crows don't have language anything like humans. Dolphins are a more likely candidate. I want to believe it, but I can't.
- dbingham 4y ago
  And this right here is why it's taken us so long to figure out that we even have terrestrial aliens with cultures and languages. If you're not willing to believe it's possible, then you can't even begin to devise ways to determine if it's real. > "We have hardly begun to decipher the language of the raven. Its dictionary so far contains but a few 'words'. Perhaps our analysis has been too coarse-grained to catch the meanings. Our research has been something like that of aliens from outer space who make sonograms of human vocalizations under different situations - eating, playing, loving, fighting, etc. Certain differences noted in frequency, intonation, and loudness are correlated with feelings and emotions. But human sounds convey much more, and perhaps ravens' do, too." > Our challenge is to put ourselves in the place of those "aliens from outer space" and solve the immensely difficult problem of how to communicate with another intelligent species. http://np.crows.net/language.html http://np.crows.net/language.html Consider this: Crows pass knowledge down the generations. There have been studies done on crows where researchers go out and bully them. Then they observe the crows to see if they remember who bullied them. They do remember. And so do their children, and the children of their children. They clearly have a means of pretty abstract communication, because in remembering, they differentiate different people. They have a way of telling their kids "See that human? Yeah, that one. He's an asshole." > Recent studies have proven that the crow can remember the faces of other birds and even humans. They can differentiate between those who have been kind to them and those who have caused them stress. Crows will even pass this information on to other generations. https://birdfact.com/articles/do-crows-remember-faces https://birdfact.com/articles/do-crows-remember-faces With Dolphins the existence of a language is even clearer. In this Nova Science episode they show clear evidence of a language. They have taught the dolphins to create a new trick (something they haven't done before and haven't been taught to do by humans). They've also taught them to do tricks together. Then they put them together - "together", "create". And they did it, they came up with a new trick and they did the exact same trick together. That absolutely requires language akin to humans. Relevant section starts at around 8 minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwhoLlu8D_g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwhoLlu8D_g The evidence is there, we just have to be willing to put aside our own egos and see it.
  - ASalazarMX 4y ago
    > Then they put them together - "together", "create". And they did it, they came up with a new trick and they did the exact same trick together. > That absolutely requires language akin to humans. I want to believe they describe the trick like skaters describe theirs: "When I give you the signal, let's do a a 360 Ollie underflip flamingo powerslide. If we do it in sync, the walkers will give us treats".

qez 4y ago

> Some of them, like Dolphins, sure seem damned close to our own capabilities with likely fully formed languages ... Because we're definitely trying to communicate with the species we're aware of that we think have language. This is highly doubtful. Crows don't have language anything like humans. Dolphins are a more likely candidate. I want to believe it, but I can't.

dbingham 4y ago
And this right here is why it's taken us so long to figure out that we even have terrestrial aliens with cultures and languages. If you're not willing to believe it's possible, then you can't even begin to devise ways to determine if it's real. > "We have hardly begun to decipher the language of the raven. Its dictionary so far contains but a few 'words'. Perhaps our analysis has been too coarse-grained to catch the meanings. Our research has been something like that of aliens from outer space who make sonograms of human vocalizations under different situations - eating, playing, loving, fighting, etc. Certain differences noted in frequency, intonation, and loudness are correlated with feelings and emotions. But human sounds convey much more, and perhaps ravens' do, too." > Our challenge is to put ourselves in the place of those "aliens from outer space" and solve the immensely difficult problem of how to communicate with another intelligent species. http://np.crows.net/language.html http://np.crows.net/language.html Consider this: Crows pass knowledge down the generations. There have been studies done on crows where researchers go out and bully them. Then they observe the crows to see if they remember who bullied them. They do remember. And so do their children, and the children of their children. They clearly have a means of pretty abstract communication, because in remembering, they differentiate different people. They have a way of telling their kids "See that human? Yeah, that one. He's an asshole." > Recent studies have proven that the crow can remember the faces of other birds and even humans. They can differentiate between those who have been kind to them and those who have caused them stress. Crows will even pass this information on to other generations. https://birdfact.com/articles/do-crows-remember-faces https://birdfact.com/articles/do-crows-remember-faces With Dolphins the existence of a language is even clearer. In this Nova Science episode they show clear evidence of a language. They have taught the dolphins to create a new trick (something they haven't done before and haven't been taught to do by humans). They've also taught them to do tricks together. Then they put them together - "together", "create". And they did it, they came up with a new trick and they did the exact same trick together. That absolutely requires language akin to humans. Relevant section starts at around 8 minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwhoLlu8D_g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwhoLlu8D_g The evidence is there, we just have to be willing to put aside our own egos and see it.
- ASalazarMX 4y ago
  > Then they put them together - "together", "create". And they did it, they came up with a new trick and they did the exact same trick together. > That absolutely requires language akin to humans. I want to believe they describe the trick like skaters describe theirs: "When I give you the signal, let's do a a 360 Ollie underflip flamingo powerslide. If we do it in sync, the walkers will give us treats".