7 ms·

>In the beltway they're telling themselves that war will be a boon for the environment Yeah, maybe in ~20 years time in the future when renewables have reached

>In the beltway they're telling themselves that war will be a boon for the environment Yeah, maybe in ~20 years time in the future when renewables have reached massive scale and much investment were made by the EU to get us off fossil fuels, but their wording sounded like the EU had a leaver with which they could switch from fossil fuels to renewables overnight. Not the case at all. It just has led to a massive increase in fossil fuels imported form other places in the world that are not Russia, while causing a shortage in poorer countries, and a resurgence of coal burning in Europe. Not groovy, not groovy at all.

hedora 4y ago
> their wording sounded like the EU had a leaver with which they could switch from fossil fuels to renewables overnight. They did have such a lever, and they finally pulled it this year: Heat pumps. Even if the power plant is burning fossil fuels, they greatly reduce emissions vs. the alternatives. Some governments are offering large subsidies to install them, but, more broadly, people are voting with their wallets. It is too little, too late, but it is a start. I think the whole planet should be in a WWII-style mobilization, with every factory we can spare converting to clean energy / energy-conserving appliances. I also think we should divert a significant fraction of our military budget to clean energy infrastructure (TVA- and CCC-style), and tax fossil fuels at 2x the cost of direct air carbon capture (~ $1-2/gallon). None of these things would be as disruptive as climate change has been for the last few years.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  > They did have such a lever, and they finally pulled it this year: Heat pumps. You're making it sound like those can just magic their way into your home whenever the government snaps their fingers. They don't. Heatpumps and other building upgrades like insulation rollouts are slow, vey slow, and will take years if not decades to complete. Where I live, one of the richest countries in the EU, many old buildings in the city center are uninsulated and still heated by gas or burning wood, while many homes in the suburbs/countryside are heated by oil and fire wood. By the time they'll all have heatpumps, my grandkids's kids will probably enjoy them. Meanwhile in the real world, while we dream about heatpumps in our homes, coal and fossil fuel usage in Europe, and globally, has reached an all time high.
  - hedora 4y ago
    If you can drill a couple holes the size of a 2 euro coin through a wall, you can install one of these or a competitor: https://innovations.mitsubishi-les.com/en/mr-slim https://innovations.mitsubishi-les.com/en/mr-slim Installation shouldn't take more than a day (per room). Units with coefficients of power greater than 4 (> 400% "efficient") are common these days. Insulation would be nice for many reasons, but that's often much harder.
    - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
      If it's so easy and solves all our problems, why is heatpump adoption so low in most of Europe? I'm not saying heatpumps aren't good, I'd love to heave a heatpump in my apartment but you're assuming some idealistic scenarios and conditions that just aren't happening in the real world in most countries due to a collection of factors. Legally, you are not allowed to drill and install your own heatpump/AC in apartment buildings in some EU countries, even you're the owner. You're also not allowed to make any modifications to the façade, as in install additional insulation or swap out your windows. All these need to be done for the whole building all at once with planning and funds ahead of time. Things move super slow. Then there's the issue of money (we don't have much right now) and another bottleneck is the shortage of skilled certified contractors for installations, which are also very expensive. My balcony door broke and I got an appointment with a handyman almost 2 months out. I've mostly seen heatpumps grow in popularity in newer homes or where people are well off to own their house and also to upagrade it with latest tech. In the cities where most people rent or in homes where people don't have much money, they aren't upagrading anything, so still use wood, gas and oil burning for heating. Telling people who can barely afford heating bills to install heatpumps is like telling people who can barely afford gas to buy Teslas. Current EU efforts are securing enough cheap fossil fuels to burn through the existing infrastructure, rather than completely swap out old infrastructure so EU heatpump adoption is nowhere near as high as what you imagine (otherwise please provide some numbers with sources). So no, just because you can drill a hole in the wall, doesn't mean heatpumps now magically appear in every home overnight, otherwise it would have been done already.
  - fy20 4y ago

hedora 4y ago

> their wording sounded like the EU had a leaver with which they could switch from fossil fuels to renewables overnight. They did have such a lever, and they finally pulled it this year: Heat pumps. Even if the power plant is burning fossil fuels, they greatly reduce emissions vs. the alternatives. Some governments are offering large subsidies to install them, but, more broadly, people are voting with their wallets. It is too little, too late, but it is a start. I think the whole planet should be in a WWII-style mobilization, with every factory we can spare converting to clean energy / energy-conserving appliances. I also think we should divert a significant fraction of our military budget to clean energy infrastructure (TVA- and CCC-style), and tax fossil fuels at 2x the cost of direct air carbon capture (~ $1-2/gallon). None of these things would be as disruptive as climate change has been for the last few years.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
> They did have such a lever, and they finally pulled it this year: Heat pumps. You're making it sound like those can just magic their way into your home whenever the government snaps their fingers. They don't. Heatpumps and other building upgrades like insulation rollouts are slow, vey slow, and will take years if not decades to complete. Where I live, one of the richest countries in the EU, many old buildings in the city center are uninsulated and still heated by gas or burning wood, while many homes in the suburbs/countryside are heated by oil and fire wood. By the time they'll all have heatpumps, my grandkids's kids will probably enjoy them. Meanwhile in the real world, while we dream about heatpumps in our homes, coal and fossil fuel usage in Europe, and globally, has reached an all time high.
- hedora 4y ago
  If you can drill a couple holes the size of a 2 euro coin through a wall, you can install one of these or a competitor: https://innovations.mitsubishi-les.com/en/mr-slim https://innovations.mitsubishi-les.com/en/mr-slim Installation shouldn't take more than a day (per room). Units with coefficients of power greater than 4 (> 400% "efficient") are common these days. Insulation would be nice for many reasons, but that's often much harder.
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    If it's so easy and solves all our problems, why is heatpump adoption so low in most of Europe? I'm not saying heatpumps aren't good, I'd love to heave a heatpump in my apartment but you're assuming some idealistic scenarios and conditions that just aren't happening in the real world in most countries due to a collection of factors. Legally, you are not allowed to drill and install your own heatpump/AC in apartment buildings in some EU countries, even you're the owner. You're also not allowed to make any modifications to the façade, as in install additional insulation or swap out your windows. All these need to be done for the whole building all at once with planning and funds ahead of time. Things move super slow. Then there's the issue of money (we don't have much right now) and another bottleneck is the shortage of skilled certified contractors for installations, which are also very expensive. My balcony door broke and I got an appointment with a handyman almost 2 months out. I've mostly seen heatpumps grow in popularity in newer homes or where people are well off to own their house and also to upagrade it with latest tech. In the cities where most people rent or in homes where people don't have much money, they aren't upagrading anything, so still use wood, gas and oil burning for heating. Telling people who can barely afford heating bills to install heatpumps is like telling people who can barely afford gas to buy Teslas. Current EU efforts are securing enough cheap fossil fuels to burn through the existing infrastructure, rather than completely swap out old infrastructure so EU heatpump adoption is nowhere near as high as what you imagine (otherwise please provide some numbers with sources). So no, just because you can drill a hole in the wall, doesn't mean heatpumps now magically appear in every home overnight, otherwise it would have been done already.
- fy20 4y ago