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Not sure what Musk's intentions are with this. Normally this will lead to the best people updating their resumes and switching over to less toxic places ASAP. Y

by jupp0r 4y ago

Not sure what Musk's intentions are with this. Normally this will lead to the best people updating their resumes and switching over to less toxic places ASAP. You are left with people who are attached to their ancient code or who can't find good jobs elsewhere. edit: typoz

johannes1234321 4y ago
He gets rid of the people who don't bend for him. A high performer is a negative if they work against your plans.
superfrank 4y ago
If you're Musk and you truly believes that the company is bloated with underperforming employees, what is the alternative?
- rurp 4y ago
  The alternative is to take a measured approach to learning about the business and org, in order to make informed decisions about how to restructure efficiently. But of course that takes time and effort. For somebody impetuous and self-indulgent, it's much more satisfying to go in swinging a machete on day one.
  - superfrank 4y ago
    So is you issue not that he's laying off all these people, but just the speed that he's doing this? Or to put it another way, let's say that he took a year and really studied Twitter and then came to the same conclusion and did the same layoffs, would you have an issue with it then?
    - rurp 4y ago
      If Elon or anyone else actually has strong reason to believe that certain employees are dead weight I'm fine with them being laid off. Given the speed and general dysfunction of this particular case there's basically no chance that's what is going on here.
      - jupp0r 4y ago
        Exactly. If there was a way to determine the least performing 50% of employees in a matter of two days, they wouldn't be there in the first place anymore. Even if you fire them, that's a surefire way of making sure that the best 5% of people leave the company anyways do to the depressing atmosphere this creates.
        mft_ 4y ago
        > If there was a way to determine the least performing 50% of employees in a matter of two days, they wouldn't be there in the first place anymore. This would assume that the previous management had an incentive to cut costs and remove 50% of their workforce... which is probably not the case at all.
        jupp0r 4y ago
        What makes you think that previous management needlessly employed unproductive workers when they could have easily not done so? Do you think that Elon Musk has some special magic insight that makes him get the same amount of work done with half the resources? I know some people at Twitter and some people at Musk's companies and I don't think they are fundamentally run differently.
        dnissley 4y ago
        My experience is that most companies are pretty averse to firing people in general, even in the US with at-will employment, and even when there are many people who are moderately incompetent (so long as they are not posing obvious risks to the company, e.g. sexual harassment, etc.).
        Nathanba 4y ago
        >What makes you think that previous management needlessly employed unproductive workers when they could have easily not done so? They probably don't know who the unproductive ones are anymore because without a fresh look at things they can't think about it objectively. They give tasks to people and they get done at the same speed as they've always been done with. How do you suddenly decide: Hey actually guys, I know we were working like this for 6 years but actually, we should be 40% faster on every single task so... you know.. start working faster please and everyone who doesn't gets fired. It's just not realistic for existing managers to do this for so many reasons. Unless absolutely forced by financial realities which was apparently never the case for Twitter.
hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
> Normally this will lead to the best people updating their resumes and switching over to less toxic places ASAP Potentially, but not necessarily. Some high performers may reasonably think "finally someone who is going to cut through all the bullshit in this bloated company and demand some accountability". Look through some of the stories when Steve Jobs rejoined Apple; it wasn't that dissimilar. Now, that said, folks like this usually want and demand an inspiring leader. Some may think Musk fits the bill for that (I think I probably would have years ago), but these days I usually just want him to STFU with so much of the bullshit nonsense he sends out. I mean, the day after he closed the Twitter deal he tweeted a blatantly ridiculous and libelous story about Paul Pelosi - it's just more of the same stupid shit from him.
- themitigating 4y ago
  Unstable leader who makes off the cuff decisions. As for employees being happy that "lazy" people are being fired, if that's true why are companies so cautious about hiring and firing?
  - type-r 4y ago
    I think in general because companies find it very difficult to actually be able to tell who is lazy vs. effective. This is especially true if you want to do it at scale and quickly.

by jupp0r 4y ago

johannes1234321 4y ago

He gets rid of the people who don't bend for him. A high performer is a negative if they work against your plans.

superfrank 4y ago

If you're Musk and you truly believes that the company is bloated with underperforming employees, what is the alternative?

rurp 4y ago
The alternative is to take a measured approach to learning about the business and org, in order to make informed decisions about how to restructure efficiently. But of course that takes time and effort. For somebody impetuous and self-indulgent, it's much more satisfying to go in swinging a machete on day one.
- superfrank 4y ago
  So is you issue not that he's laying off all these people, but just the speed that he's doing this? Or to put it another way, let's say that he took a year and really studied Twitter and then came to the same conclusion and did the same layoffs, would you have an issue with it then?
  - rurp 4y ago
    If Elon or anyone else actually has strong reason to believe that certain employees are dead weight I'm fine with them being laid off. Given the speed and general dysfunction of this particular case there's basically no chance that's what is going on here.
    - jupp0r 4y ago
      Exactly. If there was a way to determine the least performing 50% of employees in a matter of two days, they wouldn't be there in the first place anymore. Even if you fire them, that's a surefire way of making sure that the best 5% of people leave the company anyways do to the depressing atmosphere this creates.
      - mft_ 4y ago
        > If there was a way to determine the least performing 50% of employees in a matter of two days, they wouldn't be there in the first place anymore. This would assume that the previous management had an incentive to cut costs and remove 50% of their workforce... which is probably not the case at all.
        jupp0r 4y ago
        What makes you think that previous management needlessly employed unproductive workers when they could have easily not done so? Do you think that Elon Musk has some special magic insight that makes him get the same amount of work done with half the resources? I know some people at Twitter and some people at Musk's companies and I don't think they are fundamentally run differently.
        dnissley 4y ago
        My experience is that most companies are pretty averse to firing people in general, even in the US with at-will employment, and even when there are many people who are moderately incompetent (so long as they are not posing obvious risks to the company, e.g. sexual harassment, etc.).
        Nathanba 4y ago
        >What makes you think that previous management needlessly employed unproductive workers when they could have easily not done so? They probably don't know who the unproductive ones are anymore because without a fresh look at things they can't think about it objectively. They give tasks to people and they get done at the same speed as they've always been done with. How do you suddenly decide: Hey actually guys, I know we were working like this for 6 years but actually, we should be 40% faster on every single task so... you know.. start working faster please and everyone who doesn't gets fired. It's just not realistic for existing managers to do this for so many reasons. Unless absolutely forced by financial realities which was apparently never the case for Twitter.

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago

> Normally this will lead to the best people updating their resumes and switching over to less toxic places ASAP Potentially, but not necessarily. Some high performers may reasonably think "finally someone who is going to cut through all the bullshit in this bloated company and demand some accountability". Look through some of the stories when Steve Jobs rejoined Apple; it wasn't that dissimilar. Now, that said, folks like this usually want and demand an inspiring leader. Some may think Musk fits the bill for that (I think I probably would have years ago), but these days I usually just want him to STFU with so much of the bullshit nonsense he sends out. I mean, the day after he closed the Twitter deal he tweeted a blatantly ridiculous and libelous story about Paul Pelosi - it's just more of the same stupid shit from him.

themitigating 4y ago
Unstable leader who makes off the cuff decisions. As for employees being happy that "lazy" people are being fired, if that's true why are companies so cautious about hiring and firing?
- type-r 4y ago
  I think in general because companies find it very difficult to actually be able to tell who is lazy vs. effective. This is especially true if you want to do it at scale and quickly.