5 ms·

"Funny" though. EVs have less moving parts, than any ICE vehicle. And brushless motor control isn't a complex issue at all(if your EV has brushless motors, tha

"Funny" though. EVs have less moving parts, than any ICE vehicle. And brushless motor control isn't a complex issue at all(if your EV has brushless motors, that is). If your EV had traditional brushed motor(s) - then it's even easier. The opposition to EV is beyond stupid at this point.

gjsman-1000 4y ago
Can an EV tow 10,100 pounds? A maxed-out F150 Lightning can, in theory. The maxed-out F150 Lightning is also more expensive; has way, way less range when towing at capacity; and takes longer to refuel. In independent towing tests, a fully-loaded F150 Lightning Platinum with maxed-out towing capacity, which is inferior to the 3500 by a few hundred pounds, could not even go 100 miles. It also takes 1.5 hours to charge at 440V, 14 hours to charge at 220V. At best, you would spend equal amounts of time charging as towing, which would be absurd (assuming you can always find a 440V charger). I rest my case. It's like saying you don't need a Core i7 for rendering because you can survive with a Core i3. Sometimes you need a Core i7 - and you'd like your Core i7 to not randomly go slower than a Pentium if it detects its drawing too much power, right? Edit: Removed 7700 F-150 Lightning limit, that was base model.
- JTbane 4y ago
  I'd wager very few pickup owners tow anything- around here they are all mall crawlers.
  - bsagdiyev 4y ago
    That doesn't invalidate anything. Most around here haul stuff and actually use them.
  - freedomben 4y ago
    Why is that relevant? Do the people who actually need to tow no longer matter because some people don't?
  - StillBored 4y ago
    Its hard to know, I for one tow a 2500lbs tractor around a few times a year, or a load of mulch, or take it into situations where I need 4x4 high clearance. But OTOH, probably 90% of the miles on it are driving around "to the mall" or work. Could I rent a truck every time I needed one? Probably, but it would probably cost me another $1k+ a year or so, be massively inconvenient, etc. OTOH, a lot can probably be done to improve the efficiency of normal trucks being used in commuter situations. Hybrid/etc style vehicles are probably just fine for my use case, since I already have the baby motor in it. Is it a bit slower/etc when I'm towing, sure, but it gets the job done.
- comte7092 4y ago
  > Can an EV tow 10,100 pounds? A maxed-out F150 Lightning can, in theory. The R1T can, the upcoming Silverado will be about 100 lbs short. Note that these are still first generation products, there’s every reason to believe that subsequent generations will see significant gains over this. > It also takes 1.5 hours to charge at 440V It is well understood that charging at high voltages is a variable curve. So, if you are looking to maximize speeds you aren’t going to charge to 100%. More realistically you’d drive for and hour and charge for 30 mins. I’m not going to pretend that is acceptable, mind you, but again, there is a lot of room for improvement in charging speeds. There are already vehicles on the market that charge significantly faster than that.
castlecrasher2 4y ago
>The opposition to EV is beyond stupid at this point. You really ought to consider why before calling it stupid. EVs are basically a non-starter if you need to tow or drive long distances quickly for reasons such as children and trucking.
StillBored 4y ago
Less, moving parts, and 1000x the software bugs. Net result is probably worse. And despite the people claiming they will last longer than ICE, I can't remember ever replacing a car because the drive train was to expensive to fix. They get replaced because they are old/ugly and the interiors/exteriors are worn out. OTOH, I don't really know anyone who is against EV's, but myself I find them slightly annoying because where i live they are basically being subsidized by everyone not driving one. Which isn't fair because the people driving them tend to be in the upper income/wealth brackets. Its basically a smug regressive tax, that doesn't do shit for the environment given ~50% of the power in the city I live in comes from a coal plant, and averages about 80% CO2 emitting sources after the wind+nukes are added to the picture. (And actual consumer vehicular CO2 output works out to something like 8% of the CO2 emissions).
- nine_k 4y ago
  Software bugs are a problem for ICE cars, too [1]. A modern car has a dozen controllers strewn about, including a hard-realtime one that controls the injection of fuel into cylinders; without its software / firmware, the car just won't go. That software may be more mature than EV's software, but not necessarily so. [1]: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/apples-wozniak-toyota-has-software-problem/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/apples-wozniak-toyota-has-softw...

gjsman-1000 4y ago

Can an EV tow 10,100 pounds? A maxed-out F150 Lightning can, in theory. The maxed-out F150 Lightning is also more expensive; has way, way less range when towing at capacity; and takes longer to refuel. In independent towing tests, a fully-loaded F150 Lightning Platinum with maxed-out towing capacity, which is inferior to the 3500 by a few hundred pounds, could not even go 100 miles. It also takes 1.5 hours to charge at 440V, 14 hours to charge at 220V. At best, you would spend equal amounts of time charging as towing, which would be absurd (assuming you can always find a 440V charger). I rest my case. It's like saying you don't need a Core i7 for rendering because you can survive with a Core i3. Sometimes you need a Core i7 - and you'd like your Core i7 to not randomly go slower than a Pentium if it detects its drawing too much power, right? Edit: Removed 7700 F-150 Lightning limit, that was base model.

JTbane 4y ago
I'd wager very few pickup owners tow anything- around here they are all mall crawlers.
- bsagdiyev 4y ago
  That doesn't invalidate anything. Most around here haul stuff and actually use them.
- freedomben 4y ago
  Why is that relevant? Do the people who actually need to tow no longer matter because some people don't?
- StillBored 4y ago
  Its hard to know, I for one tow a 2500lbs tractor around a few times a year, or a load of mulch, or take it into situations where I need 4x4 high clearance. But OTOH, probably 90% of the miles on it are driving around "to the mall" or work. Could I rent a truck every time I needed one? Probably, but it would probably cost me another $1k+ a year or so, be massively inconvenient, etc. OTOH, a lot can probably be done to improve the efficiency of normal trucks being used in commuter situations. Hybrid/etc style vehicles are probably just fine for my use case, since I already have the baby motor in it. Is it a bit slower/etc when I'm towing, sure, but it gets the job done.
comte7092 4y ago
> Can an EV tow 10,100 pounds? A maxed-out F150 Lightning can, in theory. The R1T can, the upcoming Silverado will be about 100 lbs short. Note that these are still first generation products, there’s every reason to believe that subsequent generations will see significant gains over this. > It also takes 1.5 hours to charge at 440V It is well understood that charging at high voltages is a variable curve. So, if you are looking to maximize speeds you aren’t going to charge to 100%. More realistically you’d drive for and hour and charge for 30 mins. I’m not going to pretend that is acceptable, mind you, but again, there is a lot of room for improvement in charging speeds. There are already vehicles on the market that charge significantly faster than that.

castlecrasher2 4y ago

>The opposition to EV is beyond stupid at this point. You really ought to consider why before calling it stupid. EVs are basically a non-starter if you need to tow or drive long distances quickly for reasons such as children and trucking.

StillBored 4y ago

Less, moving parts, and 1000x the software bugs. Net result is probably worse. And despite the people claiming they will last longer than ICE, I can't remember ever replacing a car because the drive train was to expensive to fix. They get replaced because they are old/ugly and the interiors/exteriors are worn out. OTOH, I don't really know anyone who is against EV's, but myself I find them slightly annoying because where i live they are basically being subsidized by everyone not driving one. Which isn't fair because the people driving them tend to be in the upper income/wealth brackets. Its basically a smug regressive tax, that doesn't do shit for the environment given ~50% of the power in the city I live in comes from a coal plant, and averages about 80% CO2 emitting sources after the wind+nukes are added to the picture. (And actual consumer vehicular CO2 output works out to something like 8% of the CO2 emissions).

nine_k 4y ago
Software bugs are a problem for ICE cars, too [1]. A modern car has a dozen controllers strewn about, including a hard-realtime one that controls the injection of fuel into cylinders; without its software / firmware, the car just won't go. That software may be more mature than EV's software, but not necessarily so. [1]: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/apples-wozniak-toyota-has-software-problem/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/apples-wozniak-toyota-has-softw...