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Lula Is Elected President of Brazil
- sylware 4y agoSo based on this article: Lula disgust, dues to his party corruption = 40%. Bolsonaro disgust, dues to his far-right extreme behavior (and maybe covid handling...) = 50%. Lula won. So this article makes me wish for brazil ppl to have saner alternatives.
- zackees 4y ago
- mcv 4y agoI'm glad Bolsonaro didn't win, but this clearly doesn't end Brazil's troubles. Bolsonaro still got a lot of votes, and it was a very tight race. On top of that, Lula isn't exactly perfect either. Brazil needs better candidates. A healthier political system where those better candidates rise to the top. Of course the same is true for the US. Or for most countries, really. But somehow appointing leaders based on popularity and a willingness to work to attain power, does not seem to produce a lot of candidates immune to corruption or other forms of power hunger.
- yladiz 4y agoThis will sound a bit flippant but what's the alternative to appointing leaders by popularity (aka voting)? All systems are prone to corruption, it more depends on the safeguards within the system that prevent it from being abused.
- noworriesnate 4y agoSortition[1]. It's been tried before, with some success. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition
- pastacacioepepe 4y agoHow are you going to work on long term plans with sortition? At least with vote elections if you are doing well you can be voted again to keep doing what you do.
- lapcat 4y agoHow are you going to work on long term plans with elections every 2 or 4 years? Every politician is always looking to the next election, not to the longer term. The lack of "next election" pressure gives sortition the advantage in looking to the future instead of the short term. Elections are what drive corruption and short term thinking.
- pastacacioepepe 4y ago> How are you going to work on long term plans with elections every 2 or 4 years? Oh I completely agree. I'm not in favor of the current system, more dubious of randomly picking rulers. If you look at efficiency, authocratic countries are working much better than democratic ones at the moment.
- yladiz 4y agoIt’s misleading because they seem to function better but in the long term they always have significant systemic issues due to the political system that are either nonexistent or minimized in a more democratic society.
- gotorazor 4y agoIf an autocratic country isn't doing well, how would you know? Who would loudly say anything? Please also note that many forms of non-democratic government. Some work better than others.
- pastacacioepepe 4y ago> If an autocratic country isn't doing well, how would you know? Who would loudly say anything? Protests and rebellions happen all the time, no matter how heavily autocratic a country is. You see this everywhere in the world, look at Iran where protesters are shot but keep protesting. Hell, just look at history, look at how much lives have been sacrificed on the altar of revolution. I don't believe that any autocracy could suppress discontent enough for the rest of the world to not know, if widely spread.
- rockbruno 4y agoThe problem with Brazil is that the country is just too big. It will never happen, but I'm confident that the solution to Brazil's rampant corruption and violence is to break up the country. In every single election it's clear that the north and the south are two completely different countries that keep getting into each other's way and preventing the country from evolving. I don't think it's a coincidence that the best countries in the world to live are geographically small. Large countries like Brazil/US/Russia have way too much stuff and people going on at the same time, it's impossible to manage them properly.
- medo-bear 4y agosure. small countries are much more adept at asserting their independence against bigger countries. also breaking up a country is always a peaceful affair
- mcv 4y agoBreaking up a country is hardly a peaceful affair; it's almost impossible to do. But that doesn't change the fact that he has a point: large countries do seem to be harder to govern and develop effectively.
- medo-bear 4y agolets test the validity of his point by breaking up australia, canada, and maybe the united states
- matheusmoreira 4y ago> Brazil needs better candidates. A healthier political system where those better candidates rise to the top. Yes. I think one of the causes of the problem is the fact all the top level positions are appointed by the winning politicians. I have no doubt they purchase support from each other that way.
- makerofspoons 4y agoDefinitely the better choice to preserve the Amazon- hopefully the international community takes this opportunity to pursue programs to pay Brazil to conserve it before the next Bolsonaro.
- cutedisaster 4y agoDurante o governo Lula a Amazônia era completamente ignorada, ficava nas mãos de garimpeiros e madeireiros. A mídia brasileira é sustentada pelo governo, como esse atual(Bolsonaro) não dava dinheiro eles usavam qualquer coisa para falar mal. Nossas leis(brasileiras) de controle ambiental são mais rígidas que as da Europa atualmente, em parte graças ao governo atual. Obs: Não apoio nenhum dos dois
- satao 4y agoThat's a lie. There were plenty of actions[0] that the Lula mandate did to control the illegal wood being sold as legal. Bolsonaro still gave money to the media. It just selected the religious conservative ones to give money to. [0]: https://www1.folha.uol.com.br/ambiente/2022/10/o-que-foi-o-ppcdam-plano-do-pt-contra-desmatamento-desmobilizado-por-bolsonaro.shtml https://www1.folha.uol.com.br/ambiente/2022/10/o-que-foi-o-p...
- cutedisaster 4y agohahahahahahaha usar a folha.uol como fonte? Wikipedia é 70% mais confiável
- AnimalMuppet 4y agoThough it doesn't explicitly say so in the guidelines, HN is an English-language site. Even if English is not your best language, most of us read bad English better than we read good Portuguese.
- prewett 4y agoPaying to conserve the Amazon is just blackmailing yourself. Every year you're going to have to keep paying otherwise "oh no, they'll cut down the Amazon". Then once it's been going on a while, they'll start demanding more, or "we'll cut down the Amazon, and you don't want that, do you?" Unless Brazil develops some intrinsic motivation, then it is at risk. So the solution is to make the Amazon so compelling that Brazil wants to keep it.
- rwmj 4y agoIs there a reason why many of these left/right progressive/reactionary votes are so close to 50:50? This election, the US presidential election, the Brexit vote. It seems really peculiar. Possible reasons I could think about: * People get angry on some kind of 1-1 basis. If there's a certain amount of anger on one side that generates a reaction on the other side, which generates a reaction on the first side and so on. * We're at a time in history where views are changing and we just happen to be in a period at a 50:50 cross-over. * Selection bias: We only pay attention to close run-offs and ignore the normal ones.
- mkj 4y agoParties adjust policies/messaging in response to polling, so balancing the tradeoffs ends up close to the cutoff? That doesn't really work for brexit as much though.
- thehappypm 4y agoIf Brexit was extremely popular it wouldn’t be news or even interesting, it would just be obvious. Lots of things end up passing in a landslide but nobody cares.
- thehappypm 4y agoIt’s an equilibrium state. Let’s say Trump/Biden was 80/20, not roughly 50/50. The Democratic party would immediately either dissolve and be replaced or make major changes to siphon off voters from the Republicans. Let’s say they succeed and the New Dems become 60/40 favorites. Then the Republicans need to change tactics to pull it back to their side.
- amadeuspagel 4y agoThe median voter theorem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_voter_theorem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_voter_theorem