10 ms·

For reference, here's the comment that was deemed sufficient grounds to be desysopped. > # '''Oppose.''' I think the domination of Wikipedia's woman niche, fo

For reference, here's the comment that was deemed sufficient grounds to be desysopped. > # '''Oppose.''' I think the domination of Wikipedia's woman niche, for lack of a better term, by males masquerading as females as opposed to welcoming actual, genuine, real women who were born and have always been female, is highly toxic. Go ahead, "cancel" me, I don't care. – [[User:Athaenara|Athaenara]] [[User talk:Athaenara| ]] 00:44, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

rippercushions 4y ago
The important context here is that this is a direct reply to a trans person's application to become an admin on Wikipedia. In other words, they're not objecting to trans ideology or something, they're specifically telling a Wikipedian that they can't be an admin because they're trans.
- atdrummond 4y ago
  Except the debate on the ban (which is what I was referring to - the reply itself is pretty much indefensible) became a referendum on ideology rather than a legitimate discussion on a ban due to a harmful action.
- paganel 4y ago
  - ghostgost 4y ago
    Indeed, she is one of many women who are completely fed up of being talked over on women's issues by men who identify as women. It wasn't really the appropriate forum for her outburst, but I think many of us can empathise with the sentiment she was expressing. The subsequent overreaction to her comment kind of proved her point too.
    - NaturalPhallacy 4y ago
  - chasd00 4y ago
    this is pretty fascinating to me, i thought the whole point of wikipedia was if you see something wrong you hit edit, fix it, and then click save. If you want to add something new the process is the same. Do you now have to pass like a virtual interview to qualify to make a change?
    - stonemetal12 4y ago
      There are power users with more privileges like being able to lock controversial articles, revert defaced articles, and stuff. Those people apply for the position.
  - NaturalPhallacy 4y ago
    This is really common all over the internet, not just wikipedia. Look who's actually dominating the reddit sub "actuallesbians": https://subredditstats.com/subreddit-user-overlaps/actuallesbians https://subredditstats.com/subreddit-user-overlaps/actualles...
croes 4y ago
>males masquerading as females Trans people are not masquerading as another gender.
- jwond 4y ago
  "male" and "female" refer to sex, not gender
  - a_shovel 4y ago
    Unless they're used in a discussion specifically about human biology, "male" and "female" can be assumed to refer to gender. The terminology isn't neatly separated, unfortunately.
    - kbelder 4y ago
      Are you sure? My impression from common usage is the opposite. It's normally referring to biology, except under certain circumstances.
      - a_shovel 4y ago
        It depends on context. A discussion about "female singers" would probably be referring to gender. It's useful to have an adjective equivalent of "man" and "woman", so people use "male" and "female" to mean that. My main point isn't to establish one meaning as more common, but to point out that there's not one "correct" meaning. Terminology around sex and gender are not neatly divided and it's not always easily determined what meaning people are using.
  - croes 4y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gender_identities https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gender_identities
    - jwond 4y ago
      > Male is the sex of an organism that produces the gamete (sex cell) known as sperm, which fuses with the larger female gamete, or ovum, in the process of fertilization. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male > Female is the sex of an organism that produces the large non-motile ova (egg cells), the type of gamete (sex cell) that fuses with the male gamete during sexual reproduction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female

rippercushions 4y ago

The important context here is that this is a direct reply to a trans person's application to become an admin on Wikipedia. In other words, they're not objecting to trans ideology or something, they're specifically telling a Wikipedian that they can't be an admin because they're trans.

atdrummond 4y ago
Except the debate on the ban (which is what I was referring to - the reply itself is pretty much indefensible) became a referendum on ideology rather than a legitimate discussion on a ban due to a harmful action.
paganel 4y ago
- ghostgost 4y ago
  Indeed, she is one of many women who are completely fed up of being talked over on women's issues by men who identify as women. It wasn't really the appropriate forum for her outburst, but I think many of us can empathise with the sentiment she was expressing. The subsequent overreaction to her comment kind of proved her point too.
  - NaturalPhallacy 4y ago
- chasd00 4y ago
  this is pretty fascinating to me, i thought the whole point of wikipedia was if you see something wrong you hit edit, fix it, and then click save. If you want to add something new the process is the same. Do you now have to pass like a virtual interview to qualify to make a change?
  - stonemetal12 4y ago
    There are power users with more privileges like being able to lock controversial articles, revert defaced articles, and stuff. Those people apply for the position.
- NaturalPhallacy 4y ago
  This is really common all over the internet, not just wikipedia. Look who's actually dominating the reddit sub "actuallesbians": https://subredditstats.com/subreddit-user-overlaps/actuallesbians https://subredditstats.com/subreddit-user-overlaps/actualles...

croes 4y ago

>males masquerading as females Trans people are not masquerading as another gender.

jwond 4y ago
"male" and "female" refer to sex, not gender
- a_shovel 4y ago
  Unless they're used in a discussion specifically about human biology, "male" and "female" can be assumed to refer to gender. The terminology isn't neatly separated, unfortunately.
  - kbelder 4y ago
    Are you sure? My impression from common usage is the opposite. It's normally referring to biology, except under certain circumstances.
    - a_shovel 4y ago
      It depends on context. A discussion about "female singers" would probably be referring to gender. It's useful to have an adjective equivalent of "man" and "woman", so people use "male" and "female" to mean that. My main point isn't to establish one meaning as more common, but to point out that there's not one "correct" meaning. Terminology around sex and gender are not neatly divided and it's not always easily determined what meaning people are using.
- croes 4y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gender_identities https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gender_identities
  - jwond 4y ago
    > Male is the sex of an organism that produces the gamete (sex cell) known as sperm, which fuses with the larger female gamete, or ovum, in the process of fertilization. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male > Female is the sex of an organism that produces the large non-motile ova (egg cells), the type of gamete (sex cell) that fuses with the male gamete during sexual reproduction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female