6 ms·

The problem with electronic voting is that it's either impossible or extremely unlikely to prove either way. Germans and many others have banned them for that r

The problem with electronic voting is that it's either impossible or extremely unlikely to prove either way. Germans and many others have banned them for that reason.

gtirloni 4y ago
Usually unprovable hypothesis are discarded.
- suggestion 4y ago
  So the unprovable hypothesis that the election was legitimate and all votes were cast legitimately and accurately should be discarded
- Dma54rhs 4y ago
  Not really. Definitely not when it comes to voting. Before Trump the idea of voting machine fraud and the impossible task to be certain of integrity of the elections was fairly non conspiratorial idea. I've never seen voting machines but I remember reading constantly about US southern states using them and the suspicions. As I said many democratic nations have banned them.
  - gtirloni 4y ago
    Just show evidence the electronic voting was rigged in Brazil and we can all move on.
    - Dma54rhs 4y ago
      I don't have such evidence and I don't claim it, but I do claim using machines it's impossible to prove otherwise which is a problem in democracy.
    - Georgelemental 4y ago
      Even if there is 0 rigging or fraud whatsoever, the mere possibility that there could have been such hurts trust in the democratic process.
    - matheusmoreira 4y ago
      They're the ones who have to demonstrate the system is secure and trustworthy.
      - gtirloni 4y ago
        "They" have done it multiple times. You're not satisfied, apparently. Show the evidence.
        matheusmoreira 4y ago
        Of course I am not satisfied. This "we're going to invite other institutions to look at the system" bullshit did not convince me at all. Show me the source code so I can verify myself, so I can post it here to get other smart people to look at it. Show me the proof that said source code is running in every voting machine and vote counting computers.
gchamonlive 4y ago
The electronic voting system is auditable though: https://portal.tcu.gov.br/en_us/imprensa/news/tcu-audits-brazilian-electronic-voting-system.htm https://portal.tcu.gov.br/en_us/imprensa/news/tcu-audits-bra... There are many valid criticisms against this system. It not being opensource, it's audit process being very restrictive etc... There is a nice presentation following a conclusion of a vulnerability test that highlight many of the issues: https://youtu.be/4MgsGdbtf6o https://youtu.be/4MgsGdbtf6o But this impossibility you claim is just nonsensical.

The problem with electronic voting is that it's either impossible or extremely unlikely to prove either way. Germans and many others have banned them for that reason.

gtirloni 4y ago

Usually unprovable hypothesis are discarded.

suggestion 4y ago
So the unprovable hypothesis that the election was legitimate and all votes were cast legitimately and accurately should be discarded
Dma54rhs 4y ago
Not really. Definitely not when it comes to voting. Before Trump the idea of voting machine fraud and the impossible task to be certain of integrity of the elections was fairly non conspiratorial idea. I've never seen voting machines but I remember reading constantly about US southern states using them and the suspicions. As I said many democratic nations have banned them.
- gtirloni 4y ago
  Just show evidence the electronic voting was rigged in Brazil and we can all move on.
  - Dma54rhs 4y ago
    I don't have such evidence and I don't claim it, but I do claim using machines it's impossible to prove otherwise which is a problem in democracy.
  - Georgelemental 4y ago
    Even if there is 0 rigging or fraud whatsoever, the mere possibility that there could have been such hurts trust in the democratic process.
  - matheusmoreira 4y ago
    They're the ones who have to demonstrate the system is secure and trustworthy.
    - gtirloni 4y ago
      "They" have done it multiple times. You're not satisfied, apparently. Show the evidence.
      - matheusmoreira 4y ago
        Of course I am not satisfied. This "we're going to invite other institutions to look at the system" bullshit did not convince me at all. Show me the source code so I can verify myself, so I can post it here to get other smart people to look at it. Show me the proof that said source code is running in every voting machine and vote counting computers.

gchamonlive 4y ago

The electronic voting system is auditable though: https://portal.tcu.gov.br/en_us/imprensa/news/tcu-audits-brazilian-electronic-voting-system.htm https://portal.tcu.gov.br/en_us/imprensa/news/tcu-audits-bra... There are many valid criticisms against this system. It not being opensource, it's audit process being very restrictive etc... There is a nice presentation following a conclusion of a vulnerability test that highlight many of the issues: https://youtu.be/4MgsGdbtf6o https://youtu.be/4MgsGdbtf6o But this impossibility you claim is just nonsensical.