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You missed the point. Star Trek never showed and endlessly peaceful universe, or a Federation that refused to act in self defense. But it systematically depict

You missed the point. Star Trek never showed and endlessly peaceful universe, or a Federation that refused to act in self defense. But it systematically depicts war and violence in general as not being a solution, rather a problem to be solved, a wound to be healed, an understanding to be found. [yes, there has been few shocking exception, including Archer in Enterprise torturing an alien]

morelisp 4y ago
> You missed the point… it systematically depicts war and violence in general as not being a solution With absolutely zero respect, I think you missed the point of the episode I named, widely considered one of the best episodes ever. They literally murder someone in cold blood to start a war, to solve the problem they might not otherwise win it.
- bsder 4y ago
  With the end point that this is a horrible thing to have done, will probably win the war, and Sisko will have to live, personally, with the guilt that his actions killed two men. At no point did the episode show this as a good thing.
  - morelisp 4y ago
    > At no point did the episode show this as a good thing. But the question isn't whether it's shown as a good thing, the bar was "Violence [is] the failure to solve a problem, never [a] true solution." Presenting the violence as necessary is still diametrically opposed to this, in some ways even more than showing violence in a positive but unnecessary light. That's a genuinely uncommon attitude in genre fiction. Reducing it to any situation where a show posits "do the ends justify the means? perhaps!" - which is the basis of like, every piece of high-stakes TV today - does a disservice to the original critique and the TNG episodes which argue otherwise (and frankly, also to the deftness with which DS9 does usually present it).
    - uxcolumbo 4y ago
      Maybe it's a goal that the Federation aspires to, but it's not black and white and can't always be achieved, as demonstrated by many episodes in TNG and DS9. Maybe the idea is if you set the bar high it will reduce violence and that's the best we can achieve?
- goodpoint 4y ago
  > With absolutely zero respect Have you read the HN guidelines? You can spare us and go troll on 4chan.
  - morelisp 4y ago
    Big words for the guy opening a comment with “you missed the point”.

morelisp 4y ago

> You missed the point… it systematically depicts war and violence in general as not being a solution With absolutely zero respect, I think you missed the point of the episode I named, widely considered one of the best episodes ever. They literally murder someone in cold blood to start a war, to solve the problem they might not otherwise win it.

bsder 4y ago
With the end point that this is a horrible thing to have done, will probably win the war, and Sisko will have to live, personally, with the guilt that his actions killed two men. At no point did the episode show this as a good thing.
- morelisp 4y ago
  > At no point did the episode show this as a good thing. But the question isn't whether it's shown as a good thing, the bar was "Violence [is] the failure to solve a problem, never [a] true solution." Presenting the violence as necessary is still diametrically opposed to this, in some ways even more than showing violence in a positive but unnecessary light. That's a genuinely uncommon attitude in genre fiction. Reducing it to any situation where a show posits "do the ends justify the means? perhaps!" - which is the basis of like, every piece of high-stakes TV today - does a disservice to the original critique and the TNG episodes which argue otherwise (and frankly, also to the deftness with which DS9 does usually present it).
  - uxcolumbo 4y ago
    Maybe it's a goal that the Federation aspires to, but it's not black and white and can't always be achieved, as demonstrated by many episodes in TNG and DS9. Maybe the idea is if you set the bar high it will reduce violence and that's the best we can achieve?
goodpoint 4y ago
> With absolutely zero respect Have you read the HN guidelines? You can spare us and go troll on 4chan.
- morelisp 4y ago
  Big words for the guy opening a comment with “you missed the point”.