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> And do we make this decision without reference to the statistics, e.g. how many people were released from prison for assaulting a woman failed to go on to mur

by jonahx 4y ago

> And do we make this decision without reference to the statistics, e.g. how many people were released from prison for assaulting a woman failed to go on to murder that same woman? I suspect the proportion would be very high. No need to suspect, or try to apply universal statistical arguments that _might_ be the case. This has been well studied, and recidivism rates for violent criminals are _extremely_ high, and incarceration is an effective strategy for preventing crime. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of the penal system, but your speculation about its total inefficacy is incorrect. If you are interested in learning more, I found the book "Criminal Injustice" enlightening: https://www.amazon.com/Criminal-Justice-Decarceration-Depolicing-Wrong/dp/B0B29L14BL/ https://www.amazon.com/Criminal-Justice-Decarceration-Depoli... For less of a commitment, the author has done many interviews. Just search podcasts for his name.

jacobolus 4y ago
If recidivism rates are high, that means the the rehabilitation function of our criminal justice system (and the broader society) is substantially ineffective. Does that indicate something inherent about the people being imprisoned, or does it instead indicate that our systems are poorly designed and failing? There are many societies around the world with much lower incarceration rates, much milder penalties, less recidivism, and much lower overall amounts of crime. Shouldn’t we be investigating what they are doing right and trying to copy it, instead of doubling down on our current methods which seem to be extremely (monetarily and socially) expensive failures? Or do you think Americans are just on average inherently defective compared to people who live in other developed countries?
- Shocka1 4y ago
  I think you are asking the right question when asking if there is something inherent with the people, or if the systems are failing. But being binary about it strikes me as a tribal. The realistic answer to your question is that a little of both are true. There is no black and white answer here. I think you may have been being sarcastic with your last comment on Americans being defective, but it may not actually be that far from the truth, and I'm American. I'm sure we could copy some strategies and be so much better at everything like the extremely developed Europeans across the pond, but the American society and certain features that are rotting from within has a lot to do with it. Band-aids are nice though and I see no harm in using them.

by jonahx 4y ago

jacobolus 4y ago

If recidivism rates are high, that means the the rehabilitation function of our criminal justice system (and the broader society) is substantially ineffective. Does that indicate something inherent about the people being imprisoned, or does it instead indicate that our systems are poorly designed and failing? There are many societies around the world with much lower incarceration rates, much milder penalties, less recidivism, and much lower overall amounts of crime. Shouldn’t we be investigating what they are doing right and trying to copy it, instead of doubling down on our current methods which seem to be extremely (monetarily and socially) expensive failures? Or do you think Americans are just on average inherently defective compared to people who live in other developed countries?

Shocka1 4y ago
I think you are asking the right question when asking if there is something inherent with the people, or if the systems are failing. But being binary about it strikes me as a tribal. The realistic answer to your question is that a little of both are true. There is no black and white answer here. I think you may have been being sarcastic with your last comment on Americans being defective, but it may not actually be that far from the truth, and I'm American. I'm sure we could copy some strategies and be so much better at everything like the extremely developed Europeans across the pond, but the American society and certain features that are rotting from within has a lot to do with it. Band-aids are nice though and I see no harm in using them.