4 ms·

RedLetterMedia does a fine grained overview[0] of Picard, where they brutally dunk on the show over the course of hours of commentary. I wholeheartedly agree wi

by Jalad 4y ago

RedLetterMedia does a fine grained overview[0] of Picard, where they brutally dunk on the show over the course of hours of commentary. I wholeheartedly agree with their takes too which is sad, because I really enjoyed Star Trek as well [0]: https://youtube.com/watch?v=hfQdf93e63I&list=PLXiyyhCy2ANpZxINTHkuQCa9KF0rzcZ_h&index=3 https://youtube.com/watch?v=hfQdf93e63I&list=PLXiyyhCy2ANpZx...

morelisp 4y ago
IIRC (it's been a while since I watched it) RLM's take is very different than the parent's "great actors like Stewart, Spiner or De Lancie" - RLM places a significant amount of Picard's failure on Stewart being given far too much latitude to chew scenery and bounce around heroically. Edit to reply to both replies below: Go read up on Stewart's influence on e.g. Starship Mine or Captain's Holiday - he never cared about maintaining (at least what OP says is) the spirit/lore of TNG. Is it really surprising that the guy who loved Starship Mine would, when given more creative reign, push something like Picard? It ain't coming (only) from the writers... Chabon for sure can do the genre-heavy psychodrama just fine.
- halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
  I thought RLM's take was Steward didn't care at all about maintaining the spirt/lore of TNG but just cashing a check?
- uxcolumbo 4y ago
  Agree - I couldn't understand how Stewart could agree to take part in this - surely he must have read the script. The only thing I can think of is that he's 80 something and getting out of the house, being part of a bigger project again, acting, meeting your old friends etc - it's exciting. So he compromised.
  - jonnycomputer 4y ago
    These shows don't always write the scripts ahead of time, so he might have only see the pilot, which wasn't that bad.
    - bsder 4y ago
      For "Picard", I wholeheartedly disagree. Supposedly, Picard was kicked out for a "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" level speech that pissed off EVERYBODY in Starfleet Command. That they never showed. You have an actor practically synonymous with Shakespearean scenery chewing and you never have him deliver the actual speech that supposedly kicks off the whole series?!?!?! That should be an unending shame to the series writers. Furthermore, had the writers created that speech, it probably would have created a much better series as it would have set up the boundaries of the world properly for the series writers to operate within.
      - paulryanrogers 4y ago
        Agree that missing speech really left a bad taste. My guess was it must have been years ago to explain why the series was beginning when Picard was at such an advanced age.
  - Swalden123 4y ago
    You never know what goes on behind closed doors and what he was lead to believe. Eg The Witcher series it seems Henry Cavill signed on for a different portrayal of the world then what was delivered.
  - philistine 4y ago
    He's a producer on the thing and has given input on the direction of the story. Patrick Stewart famously insisted on having Picard drive a dune buggy in Nemesis. He's never been in tune with what Star Trek ought to be.
    - paulryanrogers 4y ago
      > He's never been in tune with what Star Trek ought to be. What ought it be? What about insisting on driving a dune buggy is problematic?
      - philistine 4y ago
        I get your point. I really do. But proof is in the pudding, and the Picard show is really missing the mark. I don’t think it’s growing the brand, and I don’t think it’s pleasing fans either.
        morelisp 4y ago
        To get to the point, I think neither the people who want dune buggies nor those who want space utopianism are too happy to see weak it's-a-metaphor-but-literal-but-a-metaphor daddy issues.
- djur 4y ago
  "Starship Mine" and "Captain's Holiday" are both great episodes, though. I think the more damning anecdote is that he was apparently responsible for the dune buggy stuff in Nemesis.
  - morelisp 4y ago
    I think a critique of e.g. "it's very action-oriented" is only damning to the degree someone demands Star Trek be a particular kind of weak-tea Posadism. Most of Picard is bad, but not because of insufficient Roddenberry Juice, let alone some of these very personally-focused comments. I just think it's totally unfair to blame (let alone hate!) e.g. Kurtzman exclusively for this when someone doesn't like it, when Stewart's been singing this same tune since the 90s. Let's agree to disagree about "Captain's Holiday" (for a "fun" episode IMO it really clunks along, e.g. a whole predestination paradox for what is ultimately a MacGuffin), but yes, I also liked "Starship Mine" - but it's utterly unlike the TNG so many fans claim to remember. Like, critique what's actually there both then and now, not your own nostalgia and disillusionment!
    - shadowgovt 4y ago
      Agreed. FWIW, I liked the direction Picard goes in for both seasons. Exploration of what happens when Starfleet fails to live up to its ideals, and how decisions people make determine who they are determine the decisions they make, were quite fun.
unethical_ban 4y ago
Sometimes even if they have points, their analysis is asinine. They could hold their own in a debate, but do I really want to see TNG through their lens? We get out of it what we want, and they search for technical inconsistencies in search of flaws.

by Jalad 4y ago

morelisp 4y ago

IIRC (it's been a while since I watched it) RLM's take is very different than the parent's "great actors like Stewart, Spiner or De Lancie" - RLM places a significant amount of Picard's failure on Stewart being given far too much latitude to chew scenery and bounce around heroically. Edit to reply to both replies below: Go read up on Stewart's influence on e.g. Starship Mine or Captain's Holiday - he never cared about maintaining (at least what OP says is) the spirit/lore of TNG. Is it really surprising that the guy who loved Starship Mine would, when given more creative reign, push something like Picard? It ain't coming (only) from the writers... Chabon for sure can do the genre-heavy psychodrama just fine.

halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
I thought RLM's take was Steward didn't care at all about maintaining the spirt/lore of TNG but just cashing a check?
uxcolumbo 4y ago
Agree - I couldn't understand how Stewart could agree to take part in this - surely he must have read the script. The only thing I can think of is that he's 80 something and getting out of the house, being part of a bigger project again, acting, meeting your old friends etc - it's exciting. So he compromised.
- jonnycomputer 4y ago
  These shows don't always write the scripts ahead of time, so he might have only see the pilot, which wasn't that bad.
  - bsder 4y ago
    For "Picard", I wholeheartedly disagree. Supposedly, Picard was kicked out for a "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" level speech that pissed off EVERYBODY in Starfleet Command. That they never showed. You have an actor practically synonymous with Shakespearean scenery chewing and you never have him deliver the actual speech that supposedly kicks off the whole series?!?!?! That should be an unending shame to the series writers. Furthermore, had the writers created that speech, it probably would have created a much better series as it would have set up the boundaries of the world properly for the series writers to operate within.
    - paulryanrogers 4y ago
      Agree that missing speech really left a bad taste. My guess was it must have been years ago to explain why the series was beginning when Picard was at such an advanced age.
- Swalden123 4y ago
  You never know what goes on behind closed doors and what he was lead to believe. Eg The Witcher series it seems Henry Cavill signed on for a different portrayal of the world then what was delivered.
- philistine 4y ago
  He's a producer on the thing and has given input on the direction of the story. Patrick Stewart famously insisted on having Picard drive a dune buggy in Nemesis. He's never been in tune with what Star Trek ought to be.
  - paulryanrogers 4y ago
    > He's never been in tune with what Star Trek ought to be. What ought it be? What about insisting on driving a dune buggy is problematic?
    - philistine 4y ago
      I get your point. I really do. But proof is in the pudding, and the Picard show is really missing the mark. I don’t think it’s growing the brand, and I don’t think it’s pleasing fans either.
      - morelisp 4y ago
        To get to the point, I think neither the people who want dune buggies nor those who want space utopianism are too happy to see weak it's-a-metaphor-but-literal-but-a-metaphor daddy issues.
djur 4y ago
"Starship Mine" and "Captain's Holiday" are both great episodes, though. I think the more damning anecdote is that he was apparently responsible for the dune buggy stuff in Nemesis.
- morelisp 4y ago
  I think a critique of e.g. "it's very action-oriented" is only damning to the degree someone demands Star Trek be a particular kind of weak-tea Posadism. Most of Picard is bad, but not because of insufficient Roddenberry Juice, let alone some of these very personally-focused comments. I just think it's totally unfair to blame (let alone hate!) e.g. Kurtzman exclusively for this when someone doesn't like it, when Stewart's been singing this same tune since the 90s. Let's agree to disagree about "Captain's Holiday" (for a "fun" episode IMO it really clunks along, e.g. a whole predestination paradox for what is ultimately a MacGuffin), but yes, I also liked "Starship Mine" - but it's utterly unlike the TNG so many fans claim to remember. Like, critique what's actually there both then and now, not your own nostalgia and disillusionment!
  - shadowgovt 4y ago
    Agreed. FWIW, I liked the direction Picard goes in for both seasons. Exploration of what happens when Starfleet fails to live up to its ideals, and how decisions people make determine who they are determine the decisions they make, were quite fun.

unethical_ban 4y ago

Sometimes even if they have points, their analysis is asinine. They could hold their own in a debate, but do I really want to see TNG through their lens? We get out of it what we want, and they search for technical inconsistencies in search of flaws.