4 ms·

I think most people are in favor of government when it comes to utilities, phones and landlines being a classic example (although in the age of wireless, one co

I think most people are in favor of government when it comes to utilities, phones and landlines being a classic example (although in the age of wireless, one could argue government regulation actually makes things worse). But social media is not a utility, in the traditional sense.

MichaelCollins 4y ago
What is the intrinsic sense in which telephony is a utility but social media isn't? The wires? Phone companies all share the wires now (thanks again to government regulation), and with VoIP it's becoming less relevant by the day.. but phone number porting still works fine. The physical infrastructure natural monopoly stuff isn't a necessary component of what makes government regulation of phone systems work out well. The government regulation of the phone system works well because the government regulations are well designed, not because there's a limit to how many wires you can hang from a pole.
- such12 4y ago
  It doesn’t work well. Telephones haven’t changed for decades and are now practically a dead technology. The wires are used for data, and phone service is grandfathered in. You can reasonably say this is the result of a lack of innovation caused by government regulation. Edit: I say this as someone who loved the dial telephone era. I really want one of these: https://skysedge.com/unsmartphones/RUSP/index.html https://skysedge.com/unsmartphones/RUSP/index.html I would have bought one, but then I realized that the phone is useless now.
  - MichaelCollins 4y ago
    > Telephones haven’t changed for decades Now you're just being absurd. Do you think we had iphones decades ago? A few decades ago rotary dial phones were still common, cellphones were virtually unheard of, VoIP was a dream, nobody expected a resurgence of the telegraph (e.g. SMS), and switching was still done with in-band signaling. Virtually everything about telephones has changed over the past few decades. It's easier to list the things which haven't changed: we still use phone numbers (kind of... because actually almost everybody uses the contacts app built into their phones.) We still pay phone companies for the service, except now there's tons of phone companies and you aren't stuck with one.
    - such12 4y ago
      SMS isn’t the telephone. VoIP mostly isn’t done using phone numbers, and to the extent that it is, is a way to grandfather in a legacy technology. The iPhone is not primarily a telephone. If you are going to argue that it is, you really aren’t being reasonable. Also, if you look at the history, you’ll discover that these innovations were all held back by regulation and the fixed nature of the phone system.
      - MichaelCollins 4y ago
        > SMS isn’t the telephone. Nonsensical distinction. The common person sends and receives SMS using their telephone, using the same phone numbers used to call people, with the same disregard for whether they and the recipient use the same phone company because, like telephone calls, SMS works across companies. When you port your phone number to a new phone company, you continue to receive SMS sent to your number just as you do phone calls.
        such12 4y ago
        How do you explain why landline phones can’t send and receive SMS?
        MichaelCollins 4y ago
        Different phones have different capabilities, what's there to explain? SMS is something people pay their phone company for, use their phone number for, follows them when they port their phone number to a new phone company, and works when they send it to somebody using a different phone company. It's obviously part of the telephone system. (And in actual fact, there are phone companies that do offer SMS service to landline phones.)
        such12 4y ago
        > Different phones have different capabilities, what's there to explain? That your definition of ‘phone’ is meaningless. If phones can have any capability you like, then ‘phone’ doesn’t mean anything. Once you are playing that game you may as well just declare that social networks can be regulated because they are a ‘capability some things that can also communicate with phones have’, and phones are already regulated.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Gigachad 4y ago
ISPs, domain name registration and DDoS protection should be classified as utilities though.
- such12 4y ago
  Why? They seem to work fine as they are.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    They are increasingly being used as a tool to censor legal but unpopular websites. You can build your own website but if your domain name get canceled and tier 1 ISPs block you, you can’t do a lot.
    - such12 4y ago
      I’m aware of Parler, but are there other examples?
      - Gigachad 4y ago
        KiwiFarms is the latest example. No one is claiming it was a wholesome site, but it was entirely legal in the US and yet the owner is having difficulties getting it hosted because even though they have VPS providers willing to host the site, tier 1 ISPs have blackholed the sites IP. There is no alternative to a tier 1 ISP. You can't run your own, the are the lowest level of internet infrastructure and if they are being weaponized for censorship than it's all over for a neutral internet. There are 16 tier 1 ISPs which basically hold the entire internet in their control. Arguably these companies should be required to route any legal traffic.
        such12 4y ago
        I agree. I have no argument against this.

MichaelCollins 4y ago

What is the intrinsic sense in which telephony is a utility but social media isn't? The wires? Phone companies all share the wires now (thanks again to government regulation), and with VoIP it's becoming less relevant by the day.. but phone number porting still works fine. The physical infrastructure natural monopoly stuff isn't a necessary component of what makes government regulation of phone systems work out well. The government regulation of the phone system works well because the government regulations are well designed, not because there's a limit to how many wires you can hang from a pole.

such12 4y ago
It doesn’t work well. Telephones haven’t changed for decades and are now practically a dead technology. The wires are used for data, and phone service is grandfathered in. You can reasonably say this is the result of a lack of innovation caused by government regulation. Edit: I say this as someone who loved the dial telephone era. I really want one of these: https://skysedge.com/unsmartphones/RUSP/index.html https://skysedge.com/unsmartphones/RUSP/index.html I would have bought one, but then I realized that the phone is useless now.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  > Telephones haven’t changed for decades Now you're just being absurd. Do you think we had iphones decades ago? A few decades ago rotary dial phones were still common, cellphones were virtually unheard of, VoIP was a dream, nobody expected a resurgence of the telegraph (e.g. SMS), and switching was still done with in-band signaling. Virtually everything about telephones has changed over the past few decades. It's easier to list the things which haven't changed: we still use phone numbers (kind of... because actually almost everybody uses the contacts app built into their phones.) We still pay phone companies for the service, except now there's tons of phone companies and you aren't stuck with one.
  - such12 4y ago
    SMS isn’t the telephone. VoIP mostly isn’t done using phone numbers, and to the extent that it is, is a way to grandfather in a legacy technology. The iPhone is not primarily a telephone. If you are going to argue that it is, you really aren’t being reasonable. Also, if you look at the history, you’ll discover that these innovations were all held back by regulation and the fixed nature of the phone system.
    - MichaelCollins 4y ago
      > SMS isn’t the telephone. Nonsensical distinction. The common person sends and receives SMS using their telephone, using the same phone numbers used to call people, with the same disregard for whether they and the recipient use the same phone company because, like telephone calls, SMS works across companies. When you port your phone number to a new phone company, you continue to receive SMS sent to your number just as you do phone calls.
      - such12 4y ago
        How do you explain why landline phones can’t send and receive SMS?
        MichaelCollins 4y ago
        Different phones have different capabilities, what's there to explain? SMS is something people pay their phone company for, use their phone number for, follows them when they port their phone number to a new phone company, and works when they send it to somebody using a different phone company. It's obviously part of the telephone system. (And in actual fact, there are phone companies that do offer SMS service to landline phones.)
        such12 4y ago
        > Different phones have different capabilities, what's there to explain? That your definition of ‘phone’ is meaningless. If phones can have any capability you like, then ‘phone’ doesn’t mean anything. Once you are playing that game you may as well just declare that social networks can be regulated because they are a ‘capability some things that can also communicate with phones have’, and phones are already regulated.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Gigachad 4y ago

ISPs, domain name registration and DDoS protection should be classified as utilities though.

such12 4y ago
Why? They seem to work fine as they are.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  They are increasingly being used as a tool to censor legal but unpopular websites. You can build your own website but if your domain name get canceled and tier 1 ISPs block you, you can’t do a lot.
  - such12 4y ago
    I’m aware of Parler, but are there other examples?
    - Gigachad 4y ago
      KiwiFarms is the latest example. No one is claiming it was a wholesome site, but it was entirely legal in the US and yet the owner is having difficulties getting it hosted because even though they have VPS providers willing to host the site, tier 1 ISPs have blackholed the sites IP. There is no alternative to a tier 1 ISP. You can't run your own, the are the lowest level of internet infrastructure and if they are being weaponized for censorship than it's all over for a neutral internet. There are 16 tier 1 ISPs which basically hold the entire internet in their control. Arguably these companies should be required to route any legal traffic.
      - such12 4y ago
        I agree. I have no argument against this.