7 ms·

Energy poverty can be sorted out by better insulation and investment in cheaper and more sustainable sources such as nuclear, wind and solar. Instead of working

Energy poverty can be sorted out by better insulation and investment in cheaper and more sustainable sources such as nuclear, wind and solar. Instead of working around this issue with clever hacks this needs to be a national policy. I think all roofs should be mandated to have solar panels installed, as a start, and all new builds should have proper insulation.

VBprogrammer 4y ago
I think a step further is required. I really like the idea of using solar panels as an integral part of the roofing structure. There are people in the UK doing this as integrated solar panels which use a plastic tray underneath. I think with some slight adaptions we could even do better.
- spockz 4y ago
  We had a few of these projects in the Netherlands. It is nice, until it isn’t. The solar panels are more vulnerable than tiles, they will degrade or need repairs/replacing. The mechanism for sealing it up will leak. The format of the panels and or the inverter was proprietary. Or the connection was and you couldn’t retrofit another inverter. It wasn’t a good experience.
  - VBprogrammer 4y ago
    Sounds like there are a few things being mixed in there. I'm not really that convinced that solar panels are any more subject to damage than they would otherwise be. Maybe you gain a little in terms leak proofing by having a normal roof underneath but it's a lot of material for a marginal gain. Typically roofs these days are constructed with an impermeable plastic sheeting which is waterproof in its own right but requires protection from the elements (particularly the sun). It's impressive that they managed to make a DC electrical connection proprietary though!
HPsquared 4y ago
If I was planning national energy infrastructure, I wouldn't plan on dividing the equipment into a million tiny pieces and installing it on roofs, of all places. It seems much simpler to manage a solar farm than 10,000 roofs.
- yrgulation 4y ago
  Why not both tho? Energy issues arent limited to capture and storage, it involves distribution as well. Plus you want energy to be dirt cheap and accessible. So the more the better.
  - est31 4y ago
    Solar farms are more economic to build than rooftop solar: https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/documenting-a-decade-of-cost-declines-for-pv-systems.html https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/documenting-a-decade-... For individuals the calculation might be different as rooftop solar makes you less dependent on price trends you have no influence over, but as a society, utility solar is less expensive.
    - blitzar 4y ago
      > Solar farms are more economic to build than rooftop solar For utility / central planners the cost of rooftop solar is ZERO. The owner of the roof pays it. Even better they get to buy the excess for 5p and sell it on at 35p. So they make money on every panel installed. The utility pays for the solar farm and it costs $.
- diordiderot 4y ago
  Rooftop solar adds 'antifragility'
hgomersall 4y ago
Waste water heat recovery should be mandated. I'm not sure if you included that in your "clever hacks", but it's definitely fantastic value for effort.
PragmaticPulp 4y ago
> I think all roofs should be mandated to have solar panels installed, as a start, and all new builds should have proper insulation. I have good news for you: New construction has been required to have significant insulation in most jurisdictions for a very long time. The insulation requirements have steadily increased over the years, too. States like California are already requiring new construction to have infrastructure to enable solar panel installation.

VBprogrammer 4y ago

I think a step further is required. I really like the idea of using solar panels as an integral part of the roofing structure. There are people in the UK doing this as integrated solar panels which use a plastic tray underneath. I think with some slight adaptions we could even do better.

spockz 4y ago
We had a few of these projects in the Netherlands. It is nice, until it isn’t. The solar panels are more vulnerable than tiles, they will degrade or need repairs/replacing. The mechanism for sealing it up will leak. The format of the panels and or the inverter was proprietary. Or the connection was and you couldn’t retrofit another inverter. It wasn’t a good experience.
- VBprogrammer 4y ago
  Sounds like there are a few things being mixed in there. I'm not really that convinced that solar panels are any more subject to damage than they would otherwise be. Maybe you gain a little in terms leak proofing by having a normal roof underneath but it's a lot of material for a marginal gain. Typically roofs these days are constructed with an impermeable plastic sheeting which is waterproof in its own right but requires protection from the elements (particularly the sun). It's impressive that they managed to make a DC electrical connection proprietary though!

HPsquared 4y ago

If I was planning national energy infrastructure, I wouldn't plan on dividing the equipment into a million tiny pieces and installing it on roofs, of all places. It seems much simpler to manage a solar farm than 10,000 roofs.

yrgulation 4y ago
Why not both tho? Energy issues arent limited to capture and storage, it involves distribution as well. Plus you want energy to be dirt cheap and accessible. So the more the better.
- est31 4y ago
  Solar farms are more economic to build than rooftop solar: https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/documenting-a-decade-of-cost-declines-for-pv-systems.html https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/documenting-a-decade-... For individuals the calculation might be different as rooftop solar makes you less dependent on price trends you have no influence over, but as a society, utility solar is less expensive.
  - blitzar 4y ago
    > Solar farms are more economic to build than rooftop solar For utility / central planners the cost of rooftop solar is ZERO. The owner of the roof pays it. Even better they get to buy the excess for 5p and sell it on at 35p. So they make money on every panel installed. The utility pays for the solar farm and it costs $.
diordiderot 4y ago
Rooftop solar adds 'antifragility'

hgomersall 4y ago

Waste water heat recovery should be mandated. I'm not sure if you included that in your "clever hacks", but it's definitely fantastic value for effort.

PragmaticPulp 4y ago

> I think all roofs should be mandated to have solar panels installed, as a start, and all new builds should have proper insulation. I have good news for you: New construction has been required to have significant insulation in most jurisdictions for a very long time. The insulation requirements have steadily increased over the years, too. States like California are already requiring new construction to have infrastructure to enable solar panel installation.