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For many people (including myself), it's not about rehab, it's not about penance, it's about keeping someone like this away from everyone else. He's a killer -

by kiba 4y ago

For many people (including myself), it's not about rehab, it's not about penance, it's about keeping someone like this away from everyone else. He's a killer - he doesn't care about anyone's rights but his own. I would put harm prevention above penance. Penance is just a tool that promotes caring, ideally before said harms become permanent. What we ultimately want is that people who don't murder. Also, as someone noted, you probably reading too much into it.

danielmarkbruce 4y ago
"keeping someone like this away" = harm prevention. You just state it more concisely :)
- kiba 4y ago
  It's about preventing someone from becoming a person who harm people. Prison isn't something we should want in a society, but actively reduce, even if we never realistically achieve it.
  - danielmarkbruce 4y ago
    There aren't endless resources. Actively reducing would take a lot of effort from a lot of smart people and I'd rather spend those big brains on improving math and reading skills amongst children, or cancer research, or diabetes research, or dementia research.
    - kiba 4y ago
      There aren't endless resources. Actively reducing would take a lot of effort from a lot of smart people and I'd rather spend those big brains on improving math and reading skills amongst children, or cancer research, or diabetes research, or dementia research. Believe it or not, a society with 300 million plus people can do many things at once. Human resources aren't really fungible. Big brains spent on improving education of children can't really be reallocated to spend on cancer research or other part of medical science, not without extensive training at least. So too we can spend on psychological, social services, and welfare which is what we probably need to reduce crime and overall human suffering to a more manageable level. Hopefully, the improvement to societal health means more resources are available that can be then reallocated to tackle the remainder of human caused suffering.
      - danielmarkbruce 4y ago
        On the surface this appears to say "we don't need to make tradeoffs", or "there are endless resources". Both are obviously wrong, but perhaps the intended message is something different?

by kiba 4y ago

danielmarkbruce 4y ago

"keeping someone like this away" = harm prevention. You just state it more concisely :)

kiba 4y ago
It's about preventing someone from becoming a person who harm people. Prison isn't something we should want in a society, but actively reduce, even if we never realistically achieve it.
- danielmarkbruce 4y ago
  There aren't endless resources. Actively reducing would take a lot of effort from a lot of smart people and I'd rather spend those big brains on improving math and reading skills amongst children, or cancer research, or diabetes research, or dementia research.
  - kiba 4y ago
    There aren't endless resources. Actively reducing would take a lot of effort from a lot of smart people and I'd rather spend those big brains on improving math and reading skills amongst children, or cancer research, or diabetes research, or dementia research. Believe it or not, a society with 300 million plus people can do many things at once. Human resources aren't really fungible. Big brains spent on improving education of children can't really be reallocated to spend on cancer research or other part of medical science, not without extensive training at least. So too we can spend on psychological, social services, and welfare which is what we probably need to reduce crime and overall human suffering to a more manageable level. Hopefully, the improvement to societal health means more resources are available that can be then reallocated to tackle the remainder of human caused suffering.
    - danielmarkbruce 4y ago
      On the surface this appears to say "we don't need to make tradeoffs", or "there are endless resources". Both are obviously wrong, but perhaps the intended message is something different?