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The private prison argument is mostly nonsense; between state and federal, only 8% of prisoners are incarcerated in private facilities. [1] [1] https://www.sen

The private prison argument is mostly nonsense; between state and federal, only 8% of prisoners are incarcerated in private facilities. [1] [1] https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/private-prisons-in-the-united-states/ https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/private-priso...

mozman 4y ago
Harmful viewpoint. If true - that’s still 8% of inmates living sub humanely. That report is on the first page results of private vs public prisons. I encourage everyone to go volunteer and talk to inmates. Look at unicore. Total scam.
- alex_sf 4y ago
  > If true - that’s still 8% of inmates living sub humanely. There's no objective measures showing that private prisons are somehow more 'inhumane' than government-run facilities. > That report is on the first page results of private vs public prisons It is, so there's no excuse to not have some actual data to go by, compared to anecdotal experiences. > Look at unicore. Total scam. UNICOR is ran by the BOP. It has nothing to do with private vs public prisons.
- tikhonj 4y ago
  Far more than 8% of inmates live subhumanly because public prisons are awful too. Focusing on private prisons distracts us from how much of the problem is systemic and political—cruelty is built into the justice system top-down in the name of efficiency, being "tough on crime" and pure historical momentum. It's not a "follow the money" problem, it's a "politicians and voters" problem.
  - alex_sf 4y ago
    > cruelty is built into the justice system top-down in the name of efficiency And you would instead promote.. what? 'Rehabilition'? These arguments always show an absurd amount of empathy for the criminal, and little-to-none for the victims and (statistically extremely likely) future victims. There is a large number of people that simply cannot function in society. If they aren't violent, cool: I have no problem with anyone living how they like. If they are violent, then they need to be removed from potential victims.
    - PeterisP 4y ago
      While there is some proportion of people that simply cannot function in society, the experience of other societies which incarcerate a much, much smaller part of the population indicates that most people in USA prisons are not there because of this reason.
      - alex_sf 4y ago
        That's a common retort, and it's complete nonsense. > the experience of other societies which incarcerate a much, much smaller part of the population indicates that most people in USA prisons are not there because of this reason. This does not track. People like to point to Norway as a model for rehabilition and low incarceration rates, while completely ignoring the fact that their crime rate is one of the lowest on the planet. So, yes, if your crime rate (and anti-sociality) is near zero, I would expect the incarceration rate to be much lower, as well.
        PeterisP 4y ago
        I did not mention Norway, or low crime countries, because the same applies for literally every country in the world. Out of large countries except USA the ones with the highest incarceration rate are Brazil, Turkey and Russia, which definitely do not have "crime rate (and anti-sociality) near zero" but have literally twice as few per capita incarcerated people than USA, and all the moderate-but-still-high-crime countries like Morocco or Mexico or Malaysia have three times smaller incarceration rates than USA. Unless you can make a good argument why USA has a twice larger proportion of people that simply cannot function in society than the abovementioned countries, I'll repeat my assertion that most people in USA prisons are not there because of this reason.
mwint 4y ago
How is this the first time I hear this stat? I feel like my angst toward the system has been misallocated for a very long time.
- alex_sf 4y ago
  It's like quite a few "horrible injustices"; they get piggybacked onto a few smaller and real issues, and then taken as gospel.
- jjeaff 4y ago
  Private prison services like phone and email systems are still able to take advantage of prisoners, even in public prisons.
- ROTMetro 4y ago
  Because this is a recent development happening in part because it was a major agenda item for Biden. But note that they didn't close the private prisons, they just switched them to be used for ICE/Immigration incarceration because it's harder for those in that incarceration class to exercise their rights. https://www.geogroup.com/LOCATIONS https://www.geogroup.com/LOCATIONS
  - alex_sf 4y ago
    This is provably false. The private prison population has increased by 14% since 2000. [1] [1] https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/private-prisons-in-the-united-states/ https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/private-priso...
goodpoint 4y ago
"only"? That 8% is enough to make very wealthy owners successfully lobby politicians. Not to mention all the private services revolving around public prisons.
- alex_sf 4y ago
  Private prisons had 3.9B in revenue, and private prison services had 2.9B in revenue in 2021 [1]. In contrast, this is: - Half of what the Car Wash Illuminati makes [2] - About the same as the Evil Door Handle Lobby [3] - Only 80% of the Portable Fire Extinguisher Cartel [4] - Only 4% of the Yoga Tourism Cabal [5] This is just nonsense. [1] https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/money.html https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/money.html [2] https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/us-car-wash-services-market https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/us-car-w... [3] https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/door-handles-market https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/door-han... [4] https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/portable-fire-extinguisher-market https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/portable... [5] https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/yoga-tourism-market-report https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/yoga-tou...

mozman 4y ago

Harmful viewpoint. If true - that’s still 8% of inmates living sub humanely. That report is on the first page results of private vs public prisons. I encourage everyone to go volunteer and talk to inmates. Look at unicore. Total scam.

alex_sf 4y ago
> If true - that’s still 8% of inmates living sub humanely. There's no objective measures showing that private prisons are somehow more 'inhumane' than government-run facilities. > That report is on the first page results of private vs public prisons It is, so there's no excuse to not have some actual data to go by, compared to anecdotal experiences. > Look at unicore. Total scam. UNICOR is ran by the BOP. It has nothing to do with private vs public prisons.
tikhonj 4y ago
Far more than 8% of inmates live subhumanly because public prisons are awful too. Focusing on private prisons distracts us from how much of the problem is systemic and political—cruelty is built into the justice system top-down in the name of efficiency, being "tough on crime" and pure historical momentum. It's not a "follow the money" problem, it's a "politicians and voters" problem.
- alex_sf 4y ago
  > cruelty is built into the justice system top-down in the name of efficiency And you would instead promote.. what? 'Rehabilition'? These arguments always show an absurd amount of empathy for the criminal, and little-to-none for the victims and (statistically extremely likely) future victims. There is a large number of people that simply cannot function in society. If they aren't violent, cool: I have no problem with anyone living how they like. If they are violent, then they need to be removed from potential victims.
  - PeterisP 4y ago
    While there is some proportion of people that simply cannot function in society, the experience of other societies which incarcerate a much, much smaller part of the population indicates that most people in USA prisons are not there because of this reason.
    - alex_sf 4y ago
      That's a common retort, and it's complete nonsense. > the experience of other societies which incarcerate a much, much smaller part of the population indicates that most people in USA prisons are not there because of this reason. This does not track. People like to point to Norway as a model for rehabilition and low incarceration rates, while completely ignoring the fact that their crime rate is one of the lowest on the planet. So, yes, if your crime rate (and anti-sociality) is near zero, I would expect the incarceration rate to be much lower, as well.
      - PeterisP 4y ago
        I did not mention Norway, or low crime countries, because the same applies for literally every country in the world. Out of large countries except USA the ones with the highest incarceration rate are Brazil, Turkey and Russia, which definitely do not have "crime rate (and anti-sociality) near zero" but have literally twice as few per capita incarcerated people than USA, and all the moderate-but-still-high-crime countries like Morocco or Mexico or Malaysia have three times smaller incarceration rates than USA. Unless you can make a good argument why USA has a twice larger proportion of people that simply cannot function in society than the abovementioned countries, I'll repeat my assertion that most people in USA prisons are not there because of this reason.

mwint 4y ago

How is this the first time I hear this stat? I feel like my angst toward the system has been misallocated for a very long time.

alex_sf 4y ago
It's like quite a few "horrible injustices"; they get piggybacked onto a few smaller and real issues, and then taken as gospel.
jjeaff 4y ago
Private prison services like phone and email systems are still able to take advantage of prisoners, even in public prisons.
ROTMetro 4y ago
Because this is a recent development happening in part because it was a major agenda item for Biden. But note that they didn't close the private prisons, they just switched them to be used for ICE/Immigration incarceration because it's harder for those in that incarceration class to exercise their rights. https://www.geogroup.com/LOCATIONS https://www.geogroup.com/LOCATIONS
- alex_sf 4y ago
  This is provably false. The private prison population has increased by 14% since 2000. [1] [1] https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/private-prisons-in-the-united-states/ https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/private-priso...

goodpoint 4y ago

"only"? That 8% is enough to make very wealthy owners successfully lobby politicians. Not to mention all the private services revolving around public prisons.

alex_sf 4y ago
Private prisons had 3.9B in revenue, and private prison services had 2.9B in revenue in 2021 [1]. In contrast, this is: - Half of what the Car Wash Illuminati makes [2] - About the same as the Evil Door Handle Lobby [3] - Only 80% of the Portable Fire Extinguisher Cartel [4] - Only 4% of the Yoga Tourism Cabal [5] This is just nonsense. [1] https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/money.html https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/money.html [2] https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/us-car-wash-services-market https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/us-car-w... [3] https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/door-handles-market https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/door-han... [4] https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/portable-fire-extinguisher-market https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/portable... [5] https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/yoga-tourism-market-report https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/yoga-tou...