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Obviously these are symptoms of a rotten regime to some extent, but clearly motivated by something. Is it overzealous imperial ambition, or the reverse, fear o

Obviously these are symptoms of a rotten regime to some extent, but clearly motivated by something. Is it overzealous imperial ambition, or the reverse, fear of being marginalized or even overrun? I remember at one point after the fall of Soviet Russia the new CIS being cheered at the Olympics. It seemed they could be part of a greater Europe, and everything would be great. I wonder why that fell apart. Did USA decide that would detract from US power, and 'encouraged' everyone to shun Russia? If that's the case, who's really the bad guy? The point is, there's much more history and politics and ambition going on than the crass headlines.

cmrdporcupine 4y ago
The process of privatization of Soviet assets was a feeding frenzy of corruption and desperation that we cannot even begin to comprehend in the west. Neo-liberal ideologues in the west were implicated in those policy choices, and rightfully hated for it. Putin and his strong men moved in to "clean up" that mess, and forced a slightly more responsible kleptocratic regime in. And replaced Soviet era Stalinist ideology with intense conservative nationalism that -- alongside super high energy sector profits -- stabilized Russian society. Except it has done so with an explicitly anti-western focus. There's no chance of hugging and getting along here. Too many competing interests. But it need not have been this hostile. NATO's expansion into Poland and the Baltics etc. can be seen in many ways, but if I were living next to Russia I myself would probably welcome it. Official ideology in Russia is explicitly imperial and ethno-supremacist in an open and brutal way that clearly requires containment. NATO has a complicated history and structure that I can't always support, but it is the only tool that is going to work at this time.
- jacknews 4y ago
  So basically they are irredeemably the bad guys.
  - Guthur 4y ago
    Is everyone on this thread a bot or paid NSA agent? You all need to check this racist rhetoric. The facts on the ground are that over the last 30 years the only country that has consistently carried out military death dealing operations (we talking in the order of 100 operations) throughout the world and far from their own borders are the US and their NATO military alliance. This whole situation is nonsensical and it's more likely to get us all incinerated in nuclear hellfire than achieve anything the majority of the world population want.
    - WeylandYutani 4y ago
      The only way to find out what the majority of the world population wants is free elections.
relativ575 4y ago
> I wonder why that fell apart. Did USA decide that would detract from US power, and 'encouraged' everyone to shun Russia? If that's the case, who's really the bad guy? Why would you wonder that, and not that Russia continue to have the ambition for a Russia Empire, with surrounding countries as their vassal states, and being part of Europe doesn't serve that goal?
- jacknews 4y ago
  They asked to join NATO, EU at one point. Perhaps in sheep's clothing, that's a possibility. But maybe our end ambition for what's happening now should be exactly this, a Russia integrated into the west, and not a seething pariah (with nukes) cozening up to the equally 'affronted' (as they seem to feel), but much more ambitious and powerful China.
WeylandYutani 4y ago
European countries signed multi billion dollar contracts with Russia and ignored all the human rights abuses. Russian elite was welcomed with open arms in London and Paris without questioning the source of their wealth. There was no shunning going on. Even after 2014 Crimea incident nobody was cutting ties. This persecution complex is bizarre.
- slater 4y ago
  > Russian elite was welcomed with open arms in London and Paris without questioning the source of their wealth. Dunno about Paris, but the UK now has a "unexplained wealth order" law in place, e.g. see case of the head of an Azerbaijan bank's wife - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unexplained_wealth_order https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unexplained_wealth_order

cmrdporcupine 4y ago

The process of privatization of Soviet assets was a feeding frenzy of corruption and desperation that we cannot even begin to comprehend in the west. Neo-liberal ideologues in the west were implicated in those policy choices, and rightfully hated for it. Putin and his strong men moved in to "clean up" that mess, and forced a slightly more responsible kleptocratic regime in. And replaced Soviet era Stalinist ideology with intense conservative nationalism that -- alongside super high energy sector profits -- stabilized Russian society. Except it has done so with an explicitly anti-western focus. There's no chance of hugging and getting along here. Too many competing interests. But it need not have been this hostile. NATO's expansion into Poland and the Baltics etc. can be seen in many ways, but if I were living next to Russia I myself would probably welcome it. Official ideology in Russia is explicitly imperial and ethno-supremacist in an open and brutal way that clearly requires containment. NATO has a complicated history and structure that I can't always support, but it is the only tool that is going to work at this time.

jacknews 4y ago
So basically they are irredeemably the bad guys.
- Guthur 4y ago
  Is everyone on this thread a bot or paid NSA agent? You all need to check this racist rhetoric. The facts on the ground are that over the last 30 years the only country that has consistently carried out military death dealing operations (we talking in the order of 100 operations) throughout the world and far from their own borders are the US and their NATO military alliance. This whole situation is nonsensical and it's more likely to get us all incinerated in nuclear hellfire than achieve anything the majority of the world population want.
  - WeylandYutani 4y ago
    The only way to find out what the majority of the world population wants is free elections.

relativ575 4y ago

> I wonder why that fell apart. Did USA decide that would detract from US power, and 'encouraged' everyone to shun Russia? If that's the case, who's really the bad guy? Why would you wonder that, and not that Russia continue to have the ambition for a Russia Empire, with surrounding countries as their vassal states, and being part of Europe doesn't serve that goal?

jacknews 4y ago
They asked to join NATO, EU at one point. Perhaps in sheep's clothing, that's a possibility. But maybe our end ambition for what's happening now should be exactly this, a Russia integrated into the west, and not a seething pariah (with nukes) cozening up to the equally 'affronted' (as they seem to feel), but much more ambitious and powerful China.

WeylandYutani 4y ago

European countries signed multi billion dollar contracts with Russia and ignored all the human rights abuses. Russian elite was welcomed with open arms in London and Paris without questioning the source of their wealth. There was no shunning going on. Even after 2014 Crimea incident nobody was cutting ties. This persecution complex is bizarre.

slater 4y ago
> Russian elite was welcomed with open arms in London and Paris without questioning the source of their wealth. Dunno about Paris, but the UK now has a "unexplained wealth order" law in place, e.g. see case of the head of an Azerbaijan bank's wife - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unexplained_wealth_order https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unexplained_wealth_order