4 ms·

The other thing people seem to underestimate is the how strong the used battery market is between repairs to another car, after market conversions of internal c

The other thing people seem to underestimate is the how strong the used battery market is between repairs to another car, after market conversions of internal combustion cars and conversion back into stationary storage. Even the 24kWh of the Nissan Leaf battery pack, having suffered from say 20% degradation is still 20kwh of battery storage, more than a days worth for most households. For example one of those original Leaf batteries will still fetch nearly £2000. The 40kWh and above much more because they open the possibility of re-batterying an original Leaf.

anonuser123456 4y ago
>Even the 24kWh of the Nissan Leaf battery pack, having suffered from say 20% degradation is still 20kwh of battery storage This is not quite true. The failure rate and capacity decline dramatically incr
- solardev 4y ago
  I guess this is also true for Hackernews repl
- VBprogrammer 4y ago
  I mean you couldn't sell is warranted as a 20kWh pack. That much is true. But for most home stationary storage purposes I'm not sure how important the exact capacity is, things like shifting power use onto the low side of a dual rate tariff and maximizing the potential of roof top solar.
  - solardev 4y ago
    It depends on the use case. For time-shifting loads and playing power arbitrage, maybe not much. But in some cases having a few days of autonomy can be nice during a storm or ~freak~/"new normal" weather events. If you live in the US West, wildfires are increasingly common (and we're just getting started) and much of California is expected to have to learn to deal with rolling brownouts and blackouts for the next few years during the warm season while PG&E is upgrading and burying their sparkly infrastructure. And if you live in Texas, I guess you're just signed up to pay infinite dollars for power whenever the market demands it. In a functional grid, each home shouldn't need its own battery system. But we've neglected ours for so long, both technically and politically, that there's no real hope in improving it in the short term, so homeowners can either take it into their own hands or just go without electricity a week or two out of the year.
lob_it 4y ago
In 2022, the auto jargon is still reminiscent of 20th century accounting and marketing. With the rapid pace of innovation with battery technologies forecast, the lack of "modular powertrains/batteries" just means many EV's will be antiqued at an unacceptable rate, due to paltry range and archaic charge times. Upgrading battery packs and charging ports with modular design should be standard engineering in the 1st world. The math to charge a battery with 500 miles of range in under 5 minutes is clear as day, but trickle charging standards just means inadequate infrastructure in a decade or so with their current rollouts. Multi-cell charging means that in 2022, modern engineering could make multiple charging ports on EV's to lower charge times to 1st world standards. I'm not sure if dually's fill both tanks simultaneously, but aircrafts would not trickle fill their fuel tanks either. 350KW charging times 3 or 4 charge ports gets EV's in the ballpark for 21st century "value for time" without supercooling or anything fancy. Uninteruptable power supply technology has existed for decades with perfect results. There is nothing stopping EV manufacturers from using different chemistries on the same vehicle either. The switchover is seemless. And with certain chemistries, the EV industry still refuses to adopt "optimized 0%" and "optimized 100%" capacities to reduce degredation and extend the life of the batteries (2nd life uses for battery storage in other environments, etc). RV battery owners and home battery users already use the 20%/80% or 25%/75% discharge/charge cycles to protect their investments with some battery chemistries. EV manufacturers seem oblivious, with range taking a huge hit with responsible environmental stewardship and 1st world math in the real world. The can charge at constant rates with optimized 0% and optimized 100% too. The legs on many lithium-based technologies is already known. EV jargon shows the generational divide with clarity. Indoctrinated into donkey cart math already makes EV's behind the curve in 21st century vocabulary and math.

anonuser123456 4y ago

>Even the 24kWh of the Nissan Leaf battery pack, having suffered from say 20% degradation is still 20kwh of battery storage This is not quite true. The failure rate and capacity decline dramatically incr

solardev 4y ago
I guess this is also true for Hackernews repl
VBprogrammer 4y ago
I mean you couldn't sell is warranted as a 20kWh pack. That much is true. But for most home stationary storage purposes I'm not sure how important the exact capacity is, things like shifting power use onto the low side of a dual rate tariff and maximizing the potential of roof top solar.
- solardev 4y ago
  It depends on the use case. For time-shifting loads and playing power arbitrage, maybe not much. But in some cases having a few days of autonomy can be nice during a storm or ~freak~/"new normal" weather events. If you live in the US West, wildfires are increasingly common (and we're just getting started) and much of California is expected to have to learn to deal with rolling brownouts and blackouts for the next few years during the warm season while PG&E is upgrading and burying their sparkly infrastructure. And if you live in Texas, I guess you're just signed up to pay infinite dollars for power whenever the market demands it. In a functional grid, each home shouldn't need its own battery system. But we've neglected ours for so long, both technically and politically, that there's no real hope in improving it in the short term, so homeowners can either take it into their own hands or just go without electricity a week or two out of the year.

lob_it 4y ago

In 2022, the auto jargon is still reminiscent of 20th century accounting and marketing. With the rapid pace of innovation with battery technologies forecast, the lack of "modular powertrains/batteries" just means many EV's will be antiqued at an unacceptable rate, due to paltry range and archaic charge times. Upgrading battery packs and charging ports with modular design should be standard engineering in the 1st world. The math to charge a battery with 500 miles of range in under 5 minutes is clear as day, but trickle charging standards just means inadequate infrastructure in a decade or so with their current rollouts. Multi-cell charging means that in 2022, modern engineering could make multiple charging ports on EV's to lower charge times to 1st world standards. I'm not sure if dually's fill both tanks simultaneously, but aircrafts would not trickle fill their fuel tanks either. 350KW charging times 3 or 4 charge ports gets EV's in the ballpark for 21st century "value for time" without supercooling or anything fancy. Uninteruptable power supply technology has existed for decades with perfect results. There is nothing stopping EV manufacturers from using different chemistries on the same vehicle either. The switchover is seemless. And with certain chemistries, the EV industry still refuses to adopt "optimized 0%" and "optimized 100%" capacities to reduce degredation and extend the life of the batteries (2nd life uses for battery storage in other environments, etc). RV battery owners and home battery users already use the 20%/80% or 25%/75% discharge/charge cycles to protect their investments with some battery chemistries. EV manufacturers seem oblivious, with range taking a huge hit with responsible environmental stewardship and 1st world math in the real world. The can charge at constant rates with optimized 0% and optimized 100% too. The legs on many lithium-based technologies is already known. EV jargon shows the generational divide with clarity. Indoctrinated into donkey cart math already makes EV's behind the curve in 21st century vocabulary and math.