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I lived in China and I thought it sucked there too. I always found it an epic cop-out by the restaurants and cafés who refused to answer questions about their d

I lived in China and I thought it sucked there too. I always found it an epic cop-out by the restaurants and cafés who refused to answer questions about their dishes or allow a simple additional request like adding more spicy. Invariably the restaurants with QR code menus were also the ones that featured pretentiously-named menu items so you had very little idea what it was going to be until after you ordered it. Fortunately while I lived in China (up through the early months of COVID) the vast majority of small restaurants still kept their classic red-and-yellow menu board that literally just says in the name of the dish exactly what you are going to get. And it was no problem to ask a question to clarify an ingredient or ask for something special. What I don't understand is if you're just going to order off an app, what's the point of even going to the restaurant in the first place? That no-human-contact experience already exists in delivery apps, so why bother leaving your home or office if when you go out you just end up with the exact same experience? It's not like most of these restaurants are snazzy KTVs or tea houses where you get a private room and bottle service, they're just bog-standard food court style restaurants with hard chairs and dirty floors. You could just as easily order online and eat the food on a park bench. To me the whole thing just came across as inconvenient at best and actively destructive of local communities and their social restaurant culture at worst.

powerapple 4y ago
We go to restaurant with friends, not for social interaction with waiters, I don't miss the human-contact experience at all. I don't know why it is part of experience of restaurant, I am interested in food, and chatting with friends. I don't care about the service, except the speed of the service. Additional bonus of the app is that it has pictures of everything you order, and also you can order at your own pace. The restaurant owner don't have time to entertain you, they are selling at a reasonable price which doesn't including entertaining you, and you don't tip them in China as well.
- OJFord 4y ago
  Then go to a fast food place, not a restaurant.
  - fragmede 4y ago
    Yes? in Singapore they have Michelin stars.
- alisonatwork 4y ago
  In my experience going to a QR code restaurant with friends means everyone spends their time fiddling with their phones instead of discussing with one another the food that they are actually at the restaurant to eat. The pictures are useless, since in China the vast majority of them are stock photos that don't depict the reality of what you get. It is much easier to choose from a menu board which just says "dry fried green beans", "red cooked eggplant", "celery and dry tofu" etc than get the (much more common on QR code menus) "house special secret recipe greens" plus a random blurry photo that doesn't even make clear what green it is. I don't expect a restaurant owner to entertain me, but I do expect them to be able to tell me what is in a dish, suggest a suitable equivalent if the restaurant doesn't have exactly what I'm looking for, tell me what's good or fresh that day or bring me something with more or less spicy depending on my preference. Any of these very short and simple interactions about exactly the product they are selling are much easier to have in person than trying to express every possible branch of a back-and-forth conversation in a tiny text box on your phone - and that's assuming there even is a text box. I've walked out of several restaurants where they had real humans "serving" who either were completely ignorant about the food they had on offer or too lazy to bother engaging with a potential customer. "Just check the app." (Which doesn't have the answers.) What's the point, then? If all you care about is talking to your friends and not getting restaurant service, then just order online from a delivery service and enjoy your meal with friends in the park, in a square, in your office kitchen, in a hotel room, at home, wherever. And please don't think I'm asking for American style "service" where you practically have servers begging you for tips every 2 seconds. There is a comfortable middle ground, and pretty much every small restaurant and da pai dang in China does it perfectly fine without a QR code menu.
  - NotYourLawyer 4y ago
    > And please don't think I'm asking for American style "service" where you practically have servers begging you for tips every 2 seconds It’s not like this at all. Servers don’t talk about tips or beg for them. You just tip at the end of the meal, whatever amount you want.
    - zztop44 4y ago
- aziaziazi 4y ago
  There’s plenty of people going to the restaurant alone and I bet the human experience is a big part of their motivation. They may not be as noisy and visible as groups of cheering young folks but you’ll notice them for sure if you take time to scan around with your eyes and not your phone (pun intended, not disdain over techies). Think of old widows, singles, workers away from family/friends, peoples with difficulties to have social interactions.
  - ivanhoe 4y ago
    > and I bet the human experience is a big part of their motivation. Restaurant business is one of the rare where "free market" is really fully functional, and market will quickly self-regulate and award the good ideas, and punish the bad ones. If your guess was right then the restaurants without it would loose the customers, and niche restaurants with the "human experience" would start popping out attracting those unsatisfied customers. Since this is not happening in China (yet?), then perhaps it's about the difference in the culture and your bet is wrong?
  - bigbacaloa 4y ago
    This is very culture dependent. In Spain almost no one eats alone in a restaurant or bar.
- WeylandYutani 4y ago
  America is weird because you can actually make a lot of money waiting tables. But in the Netherlands nobody tips so it is not exactly a very desirable job. Restaurants have to literally close because they can't find staff. Automation is the only possible future for the industry whether people want it or not.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - nkrisc 4y ago
    > America is weird because you can actually make a lot of money waiting tables. Most do not.
    - yurishimo 4y ago
      Yeah, it's relative. Bartenders can make decent money in America, but I'm guessing it's a modest salary in most of the EU. I just moved to the Netherlands and have no qualms with the service in most restaurants. At least in my region (Brabant/Limburg) everyone is very nice. If I had to complain about anything, it would be sitting for 20 minutes after the party is finished eating, waiting for someone to clear the table. The service has been excellent and I enjoy paying the price on the receipt with zero surprises!
  - ch4s3 4y ago
    I was in Amsterdam a few years ago and said a few words in Dutch to the waiter, who was really amused by it. He asked where we were from and ended up sitting down and chatting with us for like half and hour, and drew us a map of his favorite spots nearby. We also met a few really chatty bartenders, including a guy how ducked behind the bar and came back up holding kittens. I’m not sure why we had such good experiences, but it was great.
    - Tijdreiziger 4y ago
      Restaurants are hardly the only industry in the Netherlands having trouble finding staff at the moment. There are quite literally less trains because the train operators can't find enough staff.
yonaguska 4y ago
While I actually like the food, I've found myself on several occasions just deciding that I don't want to go eat at Nandos because they've managed to make entire process so entirely hostile to basic human interaction. Just let me order my food from a real person please. It's so much easier that opening a digital menu and then needing to input my card info. It just makes me feel like I'm eating at a fancy McDonald's.
- account42 4y ago
  OTOH I have gone to McD's instead of getting real food just because I can order there without interacting with any people.
rambl3r 4y ago
That hasn’t been my experience. (Living in a tier ome city since mid 2019.) Maybe it’s different now that QR menus are more the norm, or maybe we just go to different restaurants. If anything it’s easier to talk to a server, because they’re not handling the mechanics of order collection and bill payment for everyone else. I don’t miss having to get the server’s attention to try to settle the bill.

powerapple 4y ago

We go to restaurant with friends, not for social interaction with waiters, I don't miss the human-contact experience at all. I don't know why it is part of experience of restaurant, I am interested in food, and chatting with friends. I don't care about the service, except the speed of the service. Additional bonus of the app is that it has pictures of everything you order, and also you can order at your own pace. The restaurant owner don't have time to entertain you, they are selling at a reasonable price which doesn't including entertaining you, and you don't tip them in China as well.

OJFord 4y ago
Then go to a fast food place, not a restaurant.
- fragmede 4y ago
  Yes? in Singapore they have Michelin stars.
alisonatwork 4y ago
In my experience going to a QR code restaurant with friends means everyone spends their time fiddling with their phones instead of discussing with one another the food that they are actually at the restaurant to eat. The pictures are useless, since in China the vast majority of them are stock photos that don't depict the reality of what you get. It is much easier to choose from a menu board which just says "dry fried green beans", "red cooked eggplant", "celery and dry tofu" etc than get the (much more common on QR code menus) "house special secret recipe greens" plus a random blurry photo that doesn't even make clear what green it is. I don't expect a restaurant owner to entertain me, but I do expect them to be able to tell me what is in a dish, suggest a suitable equivalent if the restaurant doesn't have exactly what I'm looking for, tell me what's good or fresh that day or bring me something with more or less spicy depending on my preference. Any of these very short and simple interactions about exactly the product they are selling are much easier to have in person than trying to express every possible branch of a back-and-forth conversation in a tiny text box on your phone - and that's assuming there even is a text box. I've walked out of several restaurants where they had real humans "serving" who either were completely ignorant about the food they had on offer or too lazy to bother engaging with a potential customer. "Just check the app." (Which doesn't have the answers.) What's the point, then? If all you care about is talking to your friends and not getting restaurant service, then just order online from a delivery service and enjoy your meal with friends in the park, in a square, in your office kitchen, in a hotel room, at home, wherever. And please don't think I'm asking for American style "service" where you practically have servers begging you for tips every 2 seconds. There is a comfortable middle ground, and pretty much every small restaurant and da pai dang in China does it perfectly fine without a QR code menu.
- NotYourLawyer 4y ago
  > And please don't think I'm asking for American style "service" where you practically have servers begging you for tips every 2 seconds It’s not like this at all. Servers don’t talk about tips or beg for them. You just tip at the end of the meal, whatever amount you want.
  - zztop44 4y ago
aziaziazi 4y ago
There’s plenty of people going to the restaurant alone and I bet the human experience is a big part of their motivation. They may not be as noisy and visible as groups of cheering young folks but you’ll notice them for sure if you take time to scan around with your eyes and not your phone (pun intended, not disdain over techies). Think of old widows, singles, workers away from family/friends, peoples with difficulties to have social interactions.
- ivanhoe 4y ago
  > and I bet the human experience is a big part of their motivation. Restaurant business is one of the rare where "free market" is really fully functional, and market will quickly self-regulate and award the good ideas, and punish the bad ones. If your guess was right then the restaurants without it would loose the customers, and niche restaurants with the "human experience" would start popping out attracting those unsatisfied customers. Since this is not happening in China (yet?), then perhaps it's about the difference in the culture and your bet is wrong?
- bigbacaloa 4y ago
  This is very culture dependent. In Spain almost no one eats alone in a restaurant or bar.
WeylandYutani 4y ago
America is weird because you can actually make a lot of money waiting tables. But in the Netherlands nobody tips so it is not exactly a very desirable job. Restaurants have to literally close because they can't find staff. Automation is the only possible future for the industry whether people want it or not.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- nkrisc 4y ago
  > America is weird because you can actually make a lot of money waiting tables. Most do not.
  - yurishimo 4y ago
    Yeah, it's relative. Bartenders can make decent money in America, but I'm guessing it's a modest salary in most of the EU. I just moved to the Netherlands and have no qualms with the service in most restaurants. At least in my region (Brabant/Limburg) everyone is very nice. If I had to complain about anything, it would be sitting for 20 minutes after the party is finished eating, waiting for someone to clear the table. The service has been excellent and I enjoy paying the price on the receipt with zero surprises!
- ch4s3 4y ago
  I was in Amsterdam a few years ago and said a few words in Dutch to the waiter, who was really amused by it. He asked where we were from and ended up sitting down and chatting with us for like half and hour, and drew us a map of his favorite spots nearby. We also met a few really chatty bartenders, including a guy how ducked behind the bar and came back up holding kittens. I’m not sure why we had such good experiences, but it was great.
  - Tijdreiziger 4y ago
    Restaurants are hardly the only industry in the Netherlands having trouble finding staff at the moment. There are quite literally less trains because the train operators can't find enough staff.

yonaguska 4y ago

While I actually like the food, I've found myself on several occasions just deciding that I don't want to go eat at Nandos because they've managed to make entire process so entirely hostile to basic human interaction. Just let me order my food from a real person please. It's so much easier that opening a digital menu and then needing to input my card info. It just makes me feel like I'm eating at a fancy McDonald's.

account42 4y ago
OTOH I have gone to McD's instead of getting real food just because I can order there without interacting with any people.

rambl3r 4y ago

That hasn’t been my experience. (Living in a tier ome city since mid 2019.) Maybe it’s different now that QR menus are more the norm, or maybe we just go to different restaurants. If anything it’s easier to talk to a server, because they’re not handling the mechanics of order collection and bill payment for everyone else. I don’t miss having to get the server’s attention to try to settle the bill.