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It varies through regions. It is completely the opposite in China because: - No extra app. People scan the QR in WeChat (everybody has it) on the table, it wil

It varies through regions. It is completely the opposite in China because: - No extra app. People scan the QR in WeChat (everybody has it) on the table, it will call a mini-app dynamically (somewhat similar to React Native but interpreted in WeChat). - You are putting orders directly. - You are paying within WeChat as well so it's seamless. - The app is smooth because almost every restaurant is using the takeout giant Meituan's mini-app. - Almost every single restaurants in China is tech savvy enough to use those systems because it's already a take-out centered society. Restaurants not leveraging these systems have virtually zero chance to survive the competition. - You don't have to wait for anything or talk to anybody in the whole process. The problems people mentioned in this thread: - Minorities, people without smart phone or those are less tech savvy, are left behind. - The walled garden and monopolies and such. These problems are real, but it's probably not the QR menu to blame, because it's a far greater problem - in China, you are not allow to go anywhere without WeChat and scanning QR code due to those draconian regulations.

eru 4y ago
I have similar experiences in Singapore. The QR code menus work just fine here. And if you don't have a smartphone, you can still just talk to the staff and order with them. I like that this lets restaurants improve their labour productivity and lower their labour costs. It's hard to run a profitable restaurant.
- qsi 4y ago
  I agree it's hard to run a profitable restaurant, but I disagree it works fine in Singapore. I just had lunch at a QR based restaurant here and it was a bit painful. Staff shortages are a real problem though in F&B so something has to give. Thankfully printed menus are making a comeback. Even when the apps work fine I still prefer a printed menu.
  - eru 4y ago
    I have a slight preference for having a printed menu available for browsing, _and_ also having optional electronic ordering. > I just had lunch at a QR based restaurant here and it was a bit painful. Interesting, which one? So far I didn't have too much trouble. But I can easily believe that there are many that don't work so well.
asdwda 4y ago
[dead]
mrtksn 4y ago
If there was no obsession with registrations, it wouldn't have been a problem at all. For the menu no app is needed, the places I go always open a web page menu(provided by a service specialising in this particular niche). The payment could be completed through things like Apple Pay, per table basis. So you scan a QR code, it instantly opens a session for you and you can start ordering things and once you are done you close the session by paying through some payment processor. Also, the technology to open apps with temporary sessions without installing the app exist both on iOS and Android but for some reason it never got popular.
- denton-scratch 4y ago
  > and once you are done you close the session by paying through some payment processor. It is my custom to withold payment for a restaurant meal until I've finished eating it and am ready to leave.
  - oneeyedpigeon 4y ago
    I think that's the custom in the vast majority of restaurants, but I don't think it's incompatible with the system described. It doesn't stream payments in real time, does it?
  - mrtksn 4y ago
    Simply close the session when you are about to leave the restaurant. I don't see why you have to be paying each time you add something to your order.
  - immibis 4y ago
    Weird custom.
sentientslug 4y ago
As for the first point, Apple has a solution called App Clips (https://developer.apple.com/app-clips/ https://developer.apple.com/app-clips/) however I have never seen it in the wild even here in the Bay Area. Some commenters last time it was mentioned said they’ve used it at gas stations? I’m not sure if Android has anything conceptually similar.
- boston_clone 4y ago
  They’re extraordinarily convenient; a cafe I enjoy uses it for the total bill. Instead of handing off your physical card, the QR code presents your bill within the app clip, complete with apple pay (or enter your card details), done.
  - fragmede 4y ago
    presents your bill for you, with the waiter splitting the tab for you.
    - boston_clone 4y ago
      I usually go solo, unless you’d like to join me sometime :)
- staindk 4y ago
  I think "Instant Apps"[1] are/were meant to be the Android analog, but I haven't seen them used anywhere. Also can't find any proof that they are still a thing... except for this[2] sketchy looking app that has 1 billion+ downloads, offered by "Google Play Store" [1] https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/7683278 https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/7683278 [2] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.instantapps.supervisor https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.and...
  - stavros 4y ago
    I think Vimeo has one, whenever I click a link it always loads in a small app. https://vimeo.com/761107839 https://vimeo.com/761107839
berryg 4y ago
Same experience in Norway. Most day-to-day operations are handled using apps. Ordering at restaurants using QR codes, finding out bus routes and paying for a (digital) bus tickets, paying for a parking spot, using EV charging stations, etc. It is all done using an app. Apple Pay is a blessing. It takes a bit of getting used to. Especially as a tourist. But it works great. But I hate think what would happen if a loose my phone…
- mkl 4y ago
  One app, or different apps for each task? I can see the latter getting annoying.
  - nevon 4y ago
    I don't know about Norway, but here in Sweden you'd have one app per task, but since they integrate with each other it really isn't a problem. For example, I have an app for my region's public transportation and when I'm buying a ticket it uses the Swish (peer-to-peer payment system everyone uses) app for payment, which in turn may use BankID (national identification service) for identity verification, which uses my phone's biometrics. It sounds like a lot, but since every part is well integrated the full flow is just: tap ticket, tap buy button, fingerprint/face id, done.
- BiteCode_dev 4y ago
  Was in Norway 2 weeks ago. Went to several restaurants, took the train, stayed at a hotel. I didn't have to use my phone even once for anything. As a tourist, the only adjustment I had to make was how comfortable things were and polite people were.
  - jbgreer 4y ago
    Interesting. As a counterpoint, I was in Norway a month ago on business and as a tourist. Did the Norway in a nutshell thing from Bergen to Oslo with time in Bergen, Flam, and Oslo. I used the Bergen and Oslo day passes for unlimited public transport in those cities. The later was especially handy, as it generates QR codes for both public transport and entry to most museums. My travel passes were handled via barcode docs on my phone. My tickets to a concert in Oslo was via an app on my phone. Route planning for site-seeing (which bus, tram, ferry, or rail) was via an app on my phone. I paid for restaurants using credit cards directly to payment terminals. I found the whole experience very easy and enjoyed how much I could handle on my phone.
alisonatwork 4y ago
I lived in China and I thought it sucked there too. I always found it an epic cop-out by the restaurants and cafés who refused to answer questions about their dishes or allow a simple additional request like adding more spicy. Invariably the restaurants with QR code menus were also the ones that featured pretentiously-named menu items so you had very little idea what it was going to be until after you ordered it. Fortunately while I lived in China (up through the early months of COVID) the vast majority of small restaurants still kept their classic red-and-yellow menu board that literally just says in the name of the dish exactly what you are going to get. And it was no problem to ask a question to clarify an ingredient or ask for something special. What I don't understand is if you're just going to order off an app, what's the point of even going to the restaurant in the first place? That no-human-contact experience already exists in delivery apps, so why bother leaving your home or office if when you go out you just end up with the exact same experience? It's not like most of these restaurants are snazzy KTVs or tea houses where you get a private room and bottle service, they're just bog-standard food court style restaurants with hard chairs and dirty floors. You could just as easily order online and eat the food on a park bench. To me the whole thing just came across as inconvenient at best and actively destructive of local communities and their social restaurant culture at worst.
- powerapple 4y ago
  We go to restaurant with friends, not for social interaction with waiters, I don't miss the human-contact experience at all. I don't know why it is part of experience of restaurant, I am interested in food, and chatting with friends. I don't care about the service, except the speed of the service. Additional bonus of the app is that it has pictures of everything you order, and also you can order at your own pace. The restaurant owner don't have time to entertain you, they are selling at a reasonable price which doesn't including entertaining you, and you don't tip them in China as well.
  - OJFord 4y ago
    Then go to a fast food place, not a restaurant.
asiachick 4y ago
I hate them. It's 100x easier to browse a paper menu than the scroll through 2-5 dishes per screen, and often have to navigate sub menus trying to find what's available. I didn't come to a restaurant to fiddle with my phone for 5 to 10 minutes > You don't have talk to anybody in the whole process. That's a negative not a positive.
- powerapple 4y ago
  It is a subjective matter anyway. I love menu with pictures, digital menu is very good, you can see what you are getting, even some descriptions if the menu is designed very well. Much better than the one page menu small restaurant offers. And you don't have to talk to anyone, meaning you don't have to rush because people are waiting, no need to hold your hand in air for very long, trying to catch the eyes of a waiter.
BiteCode_dev 4y ago
So if you lose your phone, forget your phone, if you don't have any battery, or if you have any internet issue, you can't order. You cannot have the whole menu in front of you, you have to scroll and change sections. If it's cold, you can't order without talking your gloves off, if it's sunny, you better have a very bright phone or the menu will be unreadable. As everything in China, you cannot pay without being electronically tracked, and you can't give a tip without going through a system that will likely take a cut. I will refrain to reach the Godwin point here since I assume it's been debated ad nausaum. And of course, if something is not on the menu, you can't order it. As usually with systems that are 100% digital, it gives you zero margin of maneuver outside of the happy path. I don't want every restaurant to turn into a Mac Donald. If I want Mac Donald's, I go there.
- janhenr 4y ago
  This is not entirely correct, many places still do accept cash and allow you to order without your phone. It just so happens that most people prefer to order and pay by phone.
  - BiteCode_dev 4y ago
    Just like they prefer having the great firewall protecting their internet connexion ?
    - belval 4y ago
      We had a sushi restaurant (in Canada) that belonged to Chinese expat that worked with the whole QR code + order + pay on your phone and I did find it pleasant. I would go as far as saying that I prefer it. It might be cultural, but I can count on a single hand the number of times I went to a restaurant and the interaction with the waiter/waitress improved the overall experience.
      - guenthert 4y ago
        > It might be cultural, Or it might be personal.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Grustaf 4y ago
The problem with QR menus is not that they are inefficient, often they're very efficient. It's that it's impersonal and demeaning, the waiters are reduced to food carriers.
isthisthingon99 4y ago
> The problems people mentioned in this thread: > - Minorities, people without smart phone or those are less tech savvy, are left behind. I really do not understand how this isn't racist. Do they literally block you from using it if you aren't the major ethnic group?
contingencies 4y ago
I live in China and here's an anti-anecdote. I had a terrible QR code menu the other day where you'd sit down, order, but there was no pay button. This set of my alarm bells immediately. And indeed, for a dinner that was supposed to be around 200-300, we wound up paying nearly 100 in additional fees that were mystically added to our apparently open bill without declaration. I complained about this at the counter when leaving and they refused to engage. The food was bad too, it was clearly a scam. I left them a terrible review and immediately decided never to dine at a QR code menu only restaurant again, and have so far stuck to my guns. Incidentally, I also work in foodtech.
synicalx 4y ago
Another problem - you can't order a coffee without your data being harvested
PhillyG 4y ago
I built a web-app MVP which is basically a QR menu app, as a web-app with URLs for each menu in the format webappDomain/RestaurantName, for example my demo is at tearounder.app/TheLoremIpsum My MVP solves quite a few of the grumbles people mention, and other grumbles either dictate the sort of venues that shouldn't adopt this tech, or show why this tech should always be as well as traditional service not "instead of". (There are also some grumbles that require more development to iron out) Stuff my MVP does that solve grumbles mentioned in this thread: - simple URL format means you can use the URL rather than scan a QR code. If the restaurant name is long, a shorter version of the name should be used for good UX. I see QR codes that point to those URLs, as a good and easy option to provide for those people who now expect a QR code, but not the main way to access the menu. - web based means no need to install an app (I have also met some of the basic requirements for a "Progressive Web App" so some browsers will let you save it to your device once you are on the website if you want) - I keep file-sizes low, and put thought and effort into making it load and continue functioning smoothly even over slow and patchy internet connections. There are some things I could do to improve performance and smoothness on poor connections, particularly during building up your order, but it was easy to make it so that you can browse a menu to your hearts content even if your connection drops completely right after page load. Right now data for entire menu comes over at page load as JSON (that was created when restaurant last changed their menu), all UI up to placing order is handled in one page via client side JS, then as you add items to your order ajax calls add those items to a WooCommerce cart and tapping order sends you to a WordPress/WooCommerce checkout screen. Extra dev time to make a buffered version of that system, would get the connection need down to just the pageload and checkout/pay, but with the basic setup I have right now there is also need for a connection each time you add an item. The MVP setup would also require restaurants to have their woocommerce orders page up on some device behind the bar, which is not a great UI for their needs - so a "full" version of the web-app would need a custom page, and only use WooCommerce as a back-end if that made sense for that restaurant.

eru 4y ago

I have similar experiences in Singapore. The QR code menus work just fine here. And if you don't have a smartphone, you can still just talk to the staff and order with them. I like that this lets restaurants improve their labour productivity and lower their labour costs. It's hard to run a profitable restaurant.

qsi 4y ago
I agree it's hard to run a profitable restaurant, but I disagree it works fine in Singapore. I just had lunch at a QR based restaurant here and it was a bit painful. Staff shortages are a real problem though in F&B so something has to give. Thankfully printed menus are making a comeback. Even when the apps work fine I still prefer a printed menu.
- eru 4y ago
  I have a slight preference for having a printed menu available for browsing, _and_ also having optional electronic ordering. > I just had lunch at a QR based restaurant here and it was a bit painful. Interesting, which one? So far I didn't have too much trouble. But I can easily believe that there are many that don't work so well.

asdwda 4y ago

[dead]

mrtksn 4y ago

If there was no obsession with registrations, it wouldn't have been a problem at all. For the menu no app is needed, the places I go always open a web page menu(provided by a service specialising in this particular niche). The payment could be completed through things like Apple Pay, per table basis. So you scan a QR code, it instantly opens a session for you and you can start ordering things and once you are done you close the session by paying through some payment processor. Also, the technology to open apps with temporary sessions without installing the app exist both on iOS and Android but for some reason it never got popular.

denton-scratch 4y ago
> and once you are done you close the session by paying through some payment processor. It is my custom to withold payment for a restaurant meal until I've finished eating it and am ready to leave.
- oneeyedpigeon 4y ago
  I think that's the custom in the vast majority of restaurants, but I don't think it's incompatible with the system described. It doesn't stream payments in real time, does it?
- mrtksn 4y ago
  Simply close the session when you are about to leave the restaurant. I don't see why you have to be paying each time you add something to your order.
- immibis 4y ago
  Weird custom.

sentientslug 4y ago

As for the first point, Apple has a solution called App Clips (https://developer.apple.com/app-clips/ https://developer.apple.com/app-clips/) however I have never seen it in the wild even here in the Bay Area. Some commenters last time it was mentioned said they’ve used it at gas stations? I’m not sure if Android has anything conceptually similar.

boston_clone 4y ago
They’re extraordinarily convenient; a cafe I enjoy uses it for the total bill. Instead of handing off your physical card, the QR code presents your bill within the app clip, complete with apple pay (or enter your card details), done.
- fragmede 4y ago
  presents your bill for you, with the waiter splitting the tab for you.
  - boston_clone 4y ago
    I usually go solo, unless you’d like to join me sometime :)
staindk 4y ago
I think "Instant Apps"[1] are/were meant to be the Android analog, but I haven't seen them used anywhere. Also can't find any proof that they are still a thing... except for this[2] sketchy looking app that has 1 billion+ downloads, offered by "Google Play Store" [1] https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/7683278 https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/7683278 [2] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.instantapps.supervisor https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.and...
- stavros 4y ago
  I think Vimeo has one, whenever I click a link it always loads in a small app. https://vimeo.com/761107839 https://vimeo.com/761107839

berryg 4y ago

Same experience in Norway. Most day-to-day operations are handled using apps. Ordering at restaurants using QR codes, finding out bus routes and paying for a (digital) bus tickets, paying for a parking spot, using EV charging stations, etc. It is all done using an app. Apple Pay is a blessing. It takes a bit of getting used to. Especially as a tourist. But it works great. But I hate think what would happen if a loose my phone…

mkl 4y ago
One app, or different apps for each task? I can see the latter getting annoying.
- nevon 4y ago
  I don't know about Norway, but here in Sweden you'd have one app per task, but since they integrate with each other it really isn't a problem. For example, I have an app for my region's public transportation and when I'm buying a ticket it uses the Swish (peer-to-peer payment system everyone uses) app for payment, which in turn may use BankID (national identification service) for identity verification, which uses my phone's biometrics. It sounds like a lot, but since every part is well integrated the full flow is just: tap ticket, tap buy button, fingerprint/face id, done.
BiteCode_dev 4y ago
Was in Norway 2 weeks ago. Went to several restaurants, took the train, stayed at a hotel. I didn't have to use my phone even once for anything. As a tourist, the only adjustment I had to make was how comfortable things were and polite people were.
- jbgreer 4y ago
  Interesting. As a counterpoint, I was in Norway a month ago on business and as a tourist. Did the Norway in a nutshell thing from Bergen to Oslo with time in Bergen, Flam, and Oslo. I used the Bergen and Oslo day passes for unlimited public transport in those cities. The later was especially handy, as it generates QR codes for both public transport and entry to most museums. My travel passes were handled via barcode docs on my phone. My tickets to a concert in Oslo was via an app on my phone. Route planning for site-seeing (which bus, tram, ferry, or rail) was via an app on my phone. I paid for restaurants using credit cards directly to payment terminals. I found the whole experience very easy and enjoyed how much I could handle on my phone.

alisonatwork 4y ago

I lived in China and I thought it sucked there too. I always found it an epic cop-out by the restaurants and cafés who refused to answer questions about their dishes or allow a simple additional request like adding more spicy. Invariably the restaurants with QR code menus were also the ones that featured pretentiously-named menu items so you had very little idea what it was going to be until after you ordered it. Fortunately while I lived in China (up through the early months of COVID) the vast majority of small restaurants still kept their classic red-and-yellow menu board that literally just says in the name of the dish exactly what you are going to get. And it was no problem to ask a question to clarify an ingredient or ask for something special. What I don't understand is if you're just going to order off an app, what's the point of even going to the restaurant in the first place? That no-human-contact experience already exists in delivery apps, so why bother leaving your home or office if when you go out you just end up with the exact same experience? It's not like most of these restaurants are snazzy KTVs or tea houses where you get a private room and bottle service, they're just bog-standard food court style restaurants with hard chairs and dirty floors. You could just as easily order online and eat the food on a park bench. To me the whole thing just came across as inconvenient at best and actively destructive of local communities and their social restaurant culture at worst.

powerapple 4y ago
We go to restaurant with friends, not for social interaction with waiters, I don't miss the human-contact experience at all. I don't know why it is part of experience of restaurant, I am interested in food, and chatting with friends. I don't care about the service, except the speed of the service. Additional bonus of the app is that it has pictures of everything you order, and also you can order at your own pace. The restaurant owner don't have time to entertain you, they are selling at a reasonable price which doesn't including entertaining you, and you don't tip them in China as well.
- OJFord 4y ago
  Then go to a fast food place, not a restaurant.

asiachick 4y ago

I hate them. It's 100x easier to browse a paper menu than the scroll through 2-5 dishes per screen, and often have to navigate sub menus trying to find what's available. I didn't come to a restaurant to fiddle with my phone for 5 to 10 minutes > You don't have talk to anybody in the whole process. That's a negative not a positive.

powerapple 4y ago
It is a subjective matter anyway. I love menu with pictures, digital menu is very good, you can see what you are getting, even some descriptions if the menu is designed very well. Much better than the one page menu small restaurant offers. And you don't have to talk to anyone, meaning you don't have to rush because people are waiting, no need to hold your hand in air for very long, trying to catch the eyes of a waiter.

BiteCode_dev 4y ago

So if you lose your phone, forget your phone, if you don't have any battery, or if you have any internet issue, you can't order. You cannot have the whole menu in front of you, you have to scroll and change sections. If it's cold, you can't order without talking your gloves off, if it's sunny, you better have a very bright phone or the menu will be unreadable. As everything in China, you cannot pay without being electronically tracked, and you can't give a tip without going through a system that will likely take a cut. I will refrain to reach the Godwin point here since I assume it's been debated ad nausaum. And of course, if something is not on the menu, you can't order it. As usually with systems that are 100% digital, it gives you zero margin of maneuver outside of the happy path. I don't want every restaurant to turn into a Mac Donald. If I want Mac Donald's, I go there.

janhenr 4y ago
This is not entirely correct, many places still do accept cash and allow you to order without your phone. It just so happens that most people prefer to order and pay by phone.
- BiteCode_dev 4y ago
  Just like they prefer having the great firewall protecting their internet connexion ?
  - belval 4y ago
    We had a sushi restaurant (in Canada) that belonged to Chinese expat that worked with the whole QR code + order + pay on your phone and I did find it pleasant. I would go as far as saying that I prefer it. It might be cultural, but I can count on a single hand the number of times I went to a restaurant and the interaction with the waiter/waitress improved the overall experience.
    - guenthert 4y ago
      > It might be cultural, Or it might be personal.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Grustaf 4y ago

The problem with QR menus is not that they are inefficient, often they're very efficient. It's that it's impersonal and demeaning, the waiters are reduced to food carriers.

isthisthingon99 4y ago

> The problems people mentioned in this thread: > - Minorities, people without smart phone or those are less tech savvy, are left behind. I really do not understand how this isn't racist. Do they literally block you from using it if you aren't the major ethnic group?

contingencies 4y ago

I live in China and here's an anti-anecdote. I had a terrible QR code menu the other day where you'd sit down, order, but there was no pay button. This set of my alarm bells immediately. And indeed, for a dinner that was supposed to be around 200-300, we wound up paying nearly 100 in additional fees that were mystically added to our apparently open bill without declaration. I complained about this at the counter when leaving and they refused to engage. The food was bad too, it was clearly a scam. I left them a terrible review and immediately decided never to dine at a QR code menu only restaurant again, and have so far stuck to my guns. Incidentally, I also work in foodtech.

synicalx 4y ago

Another problem - you can't order a coffee without your data being harvested

PhillyG 4y ago

I built a web-app MVP which is basically a QR menu app, as a web-app with URLs for each menu in the format webappDomain/RestaurantName, for example my demo is at tearounder.app/TheLoremIpsum My MVP solves quite a few of the grumbles people mention, and other grumbles either dictate the sort of venues that shouldn't adopt this tech, or show why this tech should always be as well as traditional service not "instead of". (There are also some grumbles that require more development to iron out) Stuff my MVP does that solve grumbles mentioned in this thread: - simple URL format means you can use the URL rather than scan a QR code. If the restaurant name is long, a shorter version of the name should be used for good UX. I see QR codes that point to those URLs, as a good and easy option to provide for those people who now expect a QR code, but not the main way to access the menu. - web based means no need to install an app (I have also met some of the basic requirements for a "Progressive Web App" so some browsers will let you save it to your device once you are on the website if you want) - I keep file-sizes low, and put thought and effort into making it load and continue functioning smoothly even over slow and patchy internet connections. There are some things I could do to improve performance and smoothness on poor connections, particularly during building up your order, but it was easy to make it so that you can browse a menu to your hearts content even if your connection drops completely right after page load. Right now data for entire menu comes over at page load as JSON (that was created when restaurant last changed their menu), all UI up to placing order is handled in one page via client side JS, then as you add items to your order ajax calls add those items to a WooCommerce cart and tapping order sends you to a WordPress/WooCommerce checkout screen. Extra dev time to make a buffered version of that system, would get the connection need down to just the pageload and checkout/pay, but with the basic setup I have right now there is also need for a connection each time you add an item. The MVP setup would also require restaurants to have their woocommerce orders page up on some device behind the bar, which is not a great UI for their needs - so a "full" version of the web-app would need a custom page, and only use WooCommerce as a back-end if that made sense for that restaurant.