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I guess the core issue here is if open source is volunteer work, a hobby or art. If you see it as volunteer work, then yes you should not be paid, but you shou

I guess the core issue here is if open source is volunteer work, a hobby or art. If you see it as volunteer work, then yes you should not be paid, but you should also not provide services to wealthy organizations as they don't need it and can pay for their own needs. If this is a hobby, then why are you putting your code on GitHub? you should just share it with small communities you enjoy hanging out with. And don't provide any services unless you personally know the requester and like them. If this is more like art (think music), then you want to make it big, you want to share the code far and wide and for it to become popular, you help out developers from big companies (like record labels) hoping they notice you and pay you some day. I personally think open source can take any of those forms as it's more about how the person works and their aspirations.

bawolff 4y ago
> If this is a hobby, then why are you putting your code on GitHub? you should just share it with small communities you enjoy hanging out with. And don't provide any services unless you personally know the requester and like them. I'm confused. The vast majority of code on github pretty obviously falls into this category. And quite frankly its pretty condescending. Would you tell someone who enjoys gardening to only do their backyard lest other people see it? For that matter, who are you to tell people who they can and cannot "provide services" to. Do you also object to people acting in local community theater? > If this is more like art (think music), then you want to make it big, you want to share the code far and wide and for it to become popular, you help out developers from big companies (like record labels) hoping they notice you and pay you some day. Similarly, how many artists have you met? Some do actually yearn for that sort of thing, but most are not in it to do that.
- chillfox 4y ago
  No, but I would tell them to not do their gardening in the public botanical gardens unless they want the demands and responsibility that goes with that. As for being condescending, I found your comments only considering the volunteer side of open source equally so, and I am a big fan of answering in a tit for tat manner on the internet. I have met a bunch of artists, and all of them wish to make a living from their art. I have yet to meet one who only wants it to be a hobby. --- edit: I for got to respond to this "I'm confused. The vast majority of code on github pretty obviously falls into this category." And that is obviously causing a lot of friction between the professionals there to do a job and the hobbyists (a person can wear both hats at different times). Both sides would be better off not being on the same platform. My argument is that the hobbyists should get out of the botanical gardens (to keep going with the gardening analogy) and take their stuff to a community garden or home to their front garden.
  - bawolff 4y ago
    > No, but I would tell them to not do their gardening in the public botanical gardens unless they want the demands and responsibility that goes with that. A weird example given many botanical gardens do rely on volunteers. > As for being condescending, I found your comments only considering the volunteer side of open source equally so I personally was previously employed doing open source work. I have no problem with people making money off open source if they want and are able to, just with the idea that it should automatically be the aim. > I have met a bunch of artists, and all of them wish to make a living from their art "Making a living" and "being discovered" are very different things. But if you really think every artist wants to do art professionally, you should umm, meet more people. > And that is obviously causing a lot of friction between the professionals there to do a job and the hobbyists. How so? I have yet to encounter any friction. Although i suppose it also depends on what you mean by "professional doing a job". Even professional open source does not look like a real software job. There are no SLA's or garuntees from a professional open source project unless you pay for that seperately, so what even distinguishes professional open source from amateur open source. > Both sides would be better off not being on the same platform. Why? More to the point, although there certainly are some open source projects with big $$$ involved on github, the really famous ones tend to be not hosted on github. E.g. linux is not on github. > My argument is that the hobbyists should get out of the botanical gardens (to keep going with the gardening analogy) and take their stuff to a community garden or home to their front garden. The phrase "corporate appropriation of the commons" comes to mind.
    - chillfox 4y ago
      I have kinda run out of steam for this discussion. Thinking about it, I have realised that I don’t really care deeply enough about any of the points either way to continue it. So, have a good day, and sorry for getting you excited.

bawolff 4y ago

> If this is a hobby, then why are you putting your code on GitHub? you should just share it with small communities you enjoy hanging out with. And don't provide any services unless you personally know the requester and like them. I'm confused. The vast majority of code on github pretty obviously falls into this category. And quite frankly its pretty condescending. Would you tell someone who enjoys gardening to only do their backyard lest other people see it? For that matter, who are you to tell people who they can and cannot "provide services" to. Do you also object to people acting in local community theater? > If this is more like art (think music), then you want to make it big, you want to share the code far and wide and for it to become popular, you help out developers from big companies (like record labels) hoping they notice you and pay you some day. Similarly, how many artists have you met? Some do actually yearn for that sort of thing, but most are not in it to do that.

chillfox 4y ago
No, but I would tell them to not do their gardening in the public botanical gardens unless they want the demands and responsibility that goes with that. As for being condescending, I found your comments only considering the volunteer side of open source equally so, and I am a big fan of answering in a tit for tat manner on the internet. I have met a bunch of artists, and all of them wish to make a living from their art. I have yet to meet one who only wants it to be a hobby. --- edit: I for got to respond to this "I'm confused. The vast majority of code on github pretty obviously falls into this category." And that is obviously causing a lot of friction between the professionals there to do a job and the hobbyists (a person can wear both hats at different times). Both sides would be better off not being on the same platform. My argument is that the hobbyists should get out of the botanical gardens (to keep going with the gardening analogy) and take their stuff to a community garden or home to their front garden.
- bawolff 4y ago
  > No, but I would tell them to not do their gardening in the public botanical gardens unless they want the demands and responsibility that goes with that. A weird example given many botanical gardens do rely on volunteers. > As for being condescending, I found your comments only considering the volunteer side of open source equally so I personally was previously employed doing open source work. I have no problem with people making money off open source if they want and are able to, just with the idea that it should automatically be the aim. > I have met a bunch of artists, and all of them wish to make a living from their art "Making a living" and "being discovered" are very different things. But if you really think every artist wants to do art professionally, you should umm, meet more people. > And that is obviously causing a lot of friction between the professionals there to do a job and the hobbyists. How so? I have yet to encounter any friction. Although i suppose it also depends on what you mean by "professional doing a job". Even professional open source does not look like a real software job. There are no SLA's or garuntees from a professional open source project unless you pay for that seperately, so what even distinguishes professional open source from amateur open source. > Both sides would be better off not being on the same platform. Why? More to the point, although there certainly are some open source projects with big $$$ involved on github, the really famous ones tend to be not hosted on github. E.g. linux is not on github. > My argument is that the hobbyists should get out of the botanical gardens (to keep going with the gardening analogy) and take their stuff to a community garden or home to their front garden. The phrase "corporate appropriation of the commons" comes to mind.
  - chillfox 4y ago
    I have kinda run out of steam for this discussion. Thinking about it, I have realised that I don’t really care deeply enough about any of the points either way to continue it. So, have a good day, and sorry for getting you excited.