4 ms·
I find it kind of funny that the article says that Europe is "Not really a physical continent, but rather a cultural geographic construct" and then immediately
by hax0ron3 4y ago
I find it kind of funny that the article says that Europe is "Not really a physical continent, but rather a cultural geographic construct" and then immediately goes on to demonstrate this by showing a map of Europe that includes Ukraine but excludes Russia - a choice that I think is likely to have been influenced by politics, since I am much more used to seeing Europe defined as extending east to the Ural mountains and there is no geographic reason to draw the border of Europe along the Ukraine-Russia border.
- mb7733 4y agoWell, yeah, isn't that exactly what the article meant?
- thaumasiotes 4y ago> showing a map of Europe that includes Ukraine but excludes Russia - a choice that I think is likely to have been influenced by politics, since I am much more used to seeing Europe defined as extending east to the Ural mountains and there is no geographic reason to draw the border of Europe along the Ukraine-Russia border. The politics might be milder than you're thinking; some people find it awkward for a country to be partly in one continent and partly in another. Russia obviously can't be included in a map of Europe - only the European part of Russia would make sense. (As, indeed, you advocate.) If you're making your map by including countries, as opposed to regions, you'll have no choice but to leave Russia out. A similar issue of confusing continental boundaries, political boundaries, and ethnic boundaries can be seen in the various claims that e.g. Cleopatra was black. The logic goes that Africa is populated by blacks, Egypt is in Africa, and Cleopatra was the queen of Egypt. (You see the same thing about various Berbers who were active in the Roman Empire.) It never bothers these people that the words "Africa" and "Africa" in those three correct claims do not mean the same thing, or that Cleopatra was not an Egyptian. She was notable in her day for being the first (and last) member of her dynasty who was able to speak the Egyptian language.
- denton-scratch 4y agoCleopatra was a Greek, wasn't she?
- thaumasiotes 4y agoYes. There are complexities there too; she was an offshoot of the Ptolemaic dynasty established by one of Alexander the Great's generals. One of the diplomatic triumphs of Philip II (Alexander's father) was getting the rest of Greece to allow Macedon to participate in the "panhellenic" ["all Greece"] Olympic games. So roughly 400 years before Cleopatra's time, the more southern Greeks would have turned up their noses at her claim to be Greek. (Though in that case, the Macedonian language was quite obviously a variety of Greek, whereas the Greek and Egyptian languages were completely unrelated.)
- hax0ron3 4y agoGood point! I had not thought of that possible explanation for the choice but it actually makes a lot of sense.
- denton-scratch 4y agoStrikes me that it's only in the last decade or so that everyone reckons Ukraine is in Europe. Eastern Europe used to be that region between the West German border and the border of the Soviet Union. I've never considered Russia to be part of Europe.
- thaumasiotes 4y agoUkraine and Russia are conventional inclusions in Europe due to their membership in Christendom (and, relatedly, close ties to Greece/Byzantium).
- denton-scratch 4y agoSo Brazil and Argentina would be in Europe, by that "Christianity" measure. Maybe Albania would be in the Middle East. And most of what used to be Byzantium is now Turkey, which isn't Christian.