6 ms·

The title suggests the story is known to be fake, but the body doesn’t provide evidence of this. I don’t like Gelman’s arrogant style, and a number of his post

by onos 4y ago

The title suggests the story is known to be fake, but the body doesn’t provide evidence of this. I don’t like Gelman’s arrogant style, and a number of his posts have struck me as sneering at some idea or method without any good counter argument provided. At this point my prior is that everything he says should be taken with a grain is salt.

lolinder 4y ago
This is the explaination given by the originator of the story (from the article). As a parent, it's pretty clear to me that this was a story invented by a mom who didn't feel it was the right time to have a conversation about slave labor. > In 1970, Toronto’s John McManus was my guest in Seattle. I chatted to him about what happened when I was a refugee in wartime Guangxi. The journey from Liuzhou to Guiping was by river, and there were men on the banks whose job was to drag the boat with ropes. There was also an overseer armed with a whip. According to my mother, the whipper was hired to do just that by the boatmen! My tale went the rounds, and it was seized by a number of neo-institutional economists. . . . However, this could be a story invented by my mother – the smartest person I have ever known – to entertain a boy of seven!
- onos 4y ago
  Yes, Tldr his mom told him the story and he does not know if it’s true.
  - lolinder 4y ago
    He doesn't come right out and say he thinks it wasn't true, but it's pretty obvious from the quote that he doubts it. When the original teller doesn't believe his own story and the story flies in the face of everything we know about human nature and the story can be fully explained as a mom trying to shelter her son (which is very much human nature), I think we can go with "fake story" as the most likely hypothesis.
JackFr 4y ago
The problem I find with the smug tone, is that to me, the story is eminently plausible. In college I played in a club rugby team. Everyone who was on the team had to pay dues, and one of the things the dues paid for was our coach. Now I understand the big differences between being whipped by an overseer and having a coach make you run wind sprints, but at the same time there is a similarity to outsourcing this unpleasant activity to an outsider who will do it at arms length.
- onos 4y ago
  It’s absolutely a reasonable idea and not surprising. Organization self policing is probably as ancient as organization.
- emmelaich 4y ago
  Agreed that the story is plausible without the the whipping bit. As another sports example, consider the cox'n in an eights rowing boat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coxswain_(rowing) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coxswain_(rowing)
- dmurray 4y ago
  You might also hire a tough coach or personal trainer as an individual, though. So that makes the original story less applicable as a parable about outsourcing collective responsibility.

by onos 4y ago

lolinder 4y ago

This is the explaination given by the originator of the story (from the article). As a parent, it's pretty clear to me that this was a story invented by a mom who didn't feel it was the right time to have a conversation about slave labor. > In 1970, Toronto’s John McManus was my guest in Seattle. I chatted to him about what happened when I was a refugee in wartime Guangxi. The journey from Liuzhou to Guiping was by river, and there were men on the banks whose job was to drag the boat with ropes. There was also an overseer armed with a whip. According to my mother, the whipper was hired to do just that by the boatmen! My tale went the rounds, and it was seized by a number of neo-institutional economists. . . . However, this could be a story invented by my mother – the smartest person I have ever known – to entertain a boy of seven!

onos 4y ago
Yes, Tldr his mom told him the story and he does not know if it’s true.
- lolinder 4y ago
  He doesn't come right out and say he thinks it wasn't true, but it's pretty obvious from the quote that he doubts it. When the original teller doesn't believe his own story and the story flies in the face of everything we know about human nature and the story can be fully explained as a mom trying to shelter her son (which is very much human nature), I think we can go with "fake story" as the most likely hypothesis.

JackFr 4y ago

The problem I find with the smug tone, is that to me, the story is eminently plausible. In college I played in a club rugby team. Everyone who was on the team had to pay dues, and one of the things the dues paid for was our coach. Now I understand the big differences between being whipped by an overseer and having a coach make you run wind sprints, but at the same time there is a similarity to outsourcing this unpleasant activity to an outsider who will do it at arms length.

onos 4y ago
It’s absolutely a reasonable idea and not surprising. Organization self policing is probably as ancient as organization.
emmelaich 4y ago
Agreed that the story is plausible without the the whipping bit. As another sports example, consider the cox'n in an eights rowing boat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coxswain_(rowing) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coxswain_(rowing)
dmurray 4y ago
You might also hire a tough coach or personal trainer as an individual, though. So that makes the original story less applicable as a parable about outsourcing collective responsibility.