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$85-$158/MWh is not theoretical, this is real life utility scale installations. Tiny tiny residential scale battery installations have that 5x markup that you

$85-$158/MWh is not theoretical, this is real life utility scale installations. Tiny tiny residential scale battery installations have that 5x markup that you are observing. If you were to build your own, it's not hard to get to $300/kWh-capacity, all in, these days, even for small installs of a dozen kWh, using Chinese LFP batteries. But you won't get any of the support that your local installer gives you, and you had better know what you are doing really well...

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> $85-$158/MWh is not theoretical, this is real life utility scale installations Do you have an example? The actual cost in 2019 in the U.S. was $300 to $500/kWh [1]. The cost for the batteries alone was $190, but that’s akin to counting the cost of nuclear power by the fuel alone. [1] https://atb.nrel.gov/electricity/2021/utility-scale_battery_storage https://atb.nrel.gov/electricity/2021/utility-scale_battery_...
- epistasis 4y ago
  I think you are comparing two different things. The CapEx and installation costs are typically measured in $/kWh for capacity of the battery (though some costs scale by the $/kW, for example the inverters...). The cost of storing and delivering the energy from the battery over its lifetime, is refered to the level used cost of storage. This includes operations costs, debt service, etc. is measured by the cost of delivering energy to the grid, and grid-scale costs are typically measured in $/MWh (as opposed to residential costs typically quotes in $/kWh).
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > CapEx and installation costs are typically measured in $/kWh for capacity of the battery (though some costs scale by the $/kW, for example the inverters...) How would you describe Table 1?
    - epistasis 4y ago
      Exactly as it is labeled and exactly as quoted, capex measured in $/kWh and $/kW.... what is the confusion?
  - epistasis 4y ago
    Yikes, autocorrect really jumbled my second paragraph, which wasn’t very clear to begin with. I’m contrasting the caped with the *levelized cost of storage, which though it can be measured in $/MWh or $/kWh, is measuring something completely different than the capex. And the levelized cost of storage is the relevant figure for comparing to electricity sold on the grid.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> $85-$158/MWh is not theoretical, this is real life utility scale installations Do you have an example? The actual cost in 2019 in the U.S. was $300 to $500/kWh [1]. The cost for the batteries alone was $190, but that’s akin to counting the cost of nuclear power by the fuel alone. [1] https://atb.nrel.gov/electricity/2021/utility-scale_battery_storage https://atb.nrel.gov/electricity/2021/utility-scale_battery_...

epistasis 4y ago
I think you are comparing two different things. The CapEx and installation costs are typically measured in $/kWh for capacity of the battery (though some costs scale by the $/kW, for example the inverters...). The cost of storing and delivering the energy from the battery over its lifetime, is refered to the level used cost of storage. This includes operations costs, debt service, etc. is measured by the cost of delivering energy to the grid, and grid-scale costs are typically measured in $/MWh (as opposed to residential costs typically quotes in $/kWh).
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > CapEx and installation costs are typically measured in $/kWh for capacity of the battery (though some costs scale by the $/kW, for example the inverters...) How would you describe Table 1?
  - epistasis 4y ago
    Exactly as it is labeled and exactly as quoted, capex measured in $/kWh and $/kW.... what is the confusion?
- epistasis 4y ago
  Yikes, autocorrect really jumbled my second paragraph, which wasn’t very clear to begin with. I’m contrasting the caped with the *levelized cost of storage, which though it can be measured in $/MWh or $/kWh, is measuring something completely different than the capex. And the levelized cost of storage is the relevant figure for comparing to electricity sold on the grid.