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> I would more easily support a "ban all herbicides" movement... Though I would be somewhat skeptical of the feasibility of going completely herbicide-free. Th

> I would more easily support a "ban all herbicides" movement... Though I would be somewhat skeptical of the feasibility of going completely herbicide-free. This is my view as well. If your skepticism of a herbicide free system stems from the meme that we need industrialized agriculture to feed the world, you can rest assured that small agriculture and local permaculture is more than capable of feeding the world: https://grain.org/article/entries/4929-hungry-for-land-small-farmers-feed-the-world-with-less-than-a-quarter-of-all-farmland https://grain.org/article/entries/4929-hungry-for-land-small...

epgui 4y ago
I don't think it would be technically impossible, but I do think it's a very very non-trivial problem that would require a lot of changes, some of which would be expensive and inflationary. It's a hard problem, and a lot of very smart academics (some of which I know personally and admire) are very interested in it.
- sooheon 4y ago
  What's expensive and inflationary is regulatory capture and almost a trillion $ of annual subsidies to big agro. Small farms already feed the majority of the world, and are more productive already. We just need to stop subsidizing big farms buying up all arable land.
  - epgui 4y ago
    Oh, just that now? And then it’s a problem solved?
colechristensen 4y ago
Sri Lanka tried wholesale banning of everything and it was a disaster. >small agriculture and local permaculture … feeding the world Requires a major restructuring of civilization and economic upheavals involving an enormous number of people returning to food production. It might be a yuppie ideal to go start up a hobby farm but a few rich people having fun is a lot different than changing world economies. It’s not so hard to do for the Whole Foods and farmers market crowds willing to pay high prices. It’s quite hard to feed the poor by throwing out industrialization and replacing it with lots of labor. This makes food much more expensive. https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/future-perfect/2022/7/15/23218969/sri-lanka-organic-fertilizer-pesticide-agriculture-farming https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/future-perfect/2022/7/15/23...
- sooheon 4y ago
  Yeah, the best way to stop a car isn't to run it into a brick wall. > It’s quite hard to feed the poor by throwing out industrialization and replacing it with lots of labor. This makes food much more expensive. This is untrue. Small farms produce the majority of the world's food, despite increasing industrialization. More importantly, small farms are more efficient than big agro. > In the European Union, 20 countries register a higher rate of production per hectare on small farms than on large farms. In nine EU countries, productivity of small farms is at least twice that of big farms.55 In the seven countries where large farms have higher productivity, it is only slightly higher than that of small farms.56 This tendency is confirmed by numerous studies in other countries and regions, all of them showing higher productivity on small farms. > Our data indicate, for example, that if all farms in Kenya had the current productivity of the country's small farms, Kenya's agricultural production would double. In Central America and Ukraine, it would almost triple. In Hungary and Tajikistan it would increase by 30%. In Russia, it would be increased by a factor of six.57 > Although big farms generally consume more resources, control the best lands, receive most of the irrigation water and infrastructure, get most of the financial credit and technical assistance, and are the ones for whom most modern inputs are designed, they have lower technical efficiency and therefore lower overall productivity. Much of this has to do with low levels of employment used on big farms in order to maximise return on investment.58 https://grain.org/article/entries/4929-hungry-for-land-small-farmers-feed-the-world-with-less-than-a-quarter-of-all-farmland https://grain.org/article/entries/4929-hungry-for-land-small... We don't need economic upheaval, just stop regulatory capture and stop giving handouts to big agro.

epgui 4y ago

I don't think it would be technically impossible, but I do think it's a very very non-trivial problem that would require a lot of changes, some of which would be expensive and inflationary. It's a hard problem, and a lot of very smart academics (some of which I know personally and admire) are very interested in it.

sooheon 4y ago
What's expensive and inflationary is regulatory capture and almost a trillion $ of annual subsidies to big agro. Small farms already feed the majority of the world, and are more productive already. We just need to stop subsidizing big farms buying up all arable land.
- epgui 4y ago
  Oh, just that now? And then it’s a problem solved?

colechristensen 4y ago

Sri Lanka tried wholesale banning of everything and it was a disaster. >small agriculture and local permaculture … feeding the world Requires a major restructuring of civilization and economic upheavals involving an enormous number of people returning to food production. It might be a yuppie ideal to go start up a hobby farm but a few rich people having fun is a lot different than changing world economies. It’s not so hard to do for the Whole Foods and farmers market crowds willing to pay high prices. It’s quite hard to feed the poor by throwing out industrialization and replacing it with lots of labor. This makes food much more expensive. https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/future-perfect/2022/7/15/23218969/sri-lanka-organic-fertilizer-pesticide-agriculture-farming https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/future-perfect/2022/7/15/23...

sooheon 4y ago
Yeah, the best way to stop a car isn't to run it into a brick wall. > It’s quite hard to feed the poor by throwing out industrialization and replacing it with lots of labor. This makes food much more expensive. This is untrue. Small farms produce the majority of the world's food, despite increasing industrialization. More importantly, small farms are more efficient than big agro. > In the European Union, 20 countries register a higher rate of production per hectare on small farms than on large farms. In nine EU countries, productivity of small farms is at least twice that of big farms.55 In the seven countries where large farms have higher productivity, it is only slightly higher than that of small farms.56 This tendency is confirmed by numerous studies in other countries and regions, all of them showing higher productivity on small farms. > Our data indicate, for example, that if all farms in Kenya had the current productivity of the country's small farms, Kenya's agricultural production would double. In Central America and Ukraine, it would almost triple. In Hungary and Tajikistan it would increase by 30%. In Russia, it would be increased by a factor of six.57 > Although big farms generally consume more resources, control the best lands, receive most of the irrigation water and infrastructure, get most of the financial credit and technical assistance, and are the ones for whom most modern inputs are designed, they have lower technical efficiency and therefore lower overall productivity. Much of this has to do with low levels of employment used on big farms in order to maximise return on investment.58 https://grain.org/article/entries/4929-hungry-for-land-small-farmers-feed-the-world-with-less-than-a-quarter-of-all-farmland https://grain.org/article/entries/4929-hungry-for-land-small... We don't need economic upheaval, just stop regulatory capture and stop giving handouts to big agro.