4 ms·

Good that we have sanctions against a country that invades a neighbor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian%E2%80%93led_intervention_in_Yemen https://en.

by qlkart 4y ago

Good that we have sanctions against a country that invades a neighbor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian%E2%80%93led_intervention_in_Yemen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian%E2%80%93led_inte...), kills journalists and imprisons people for social media posts.

nathanaldensr 4y ago
Follow the money.
- fny 4y ago
  Follow the oil.
  - nathanaldensr 4y ago
    They might as well be effectively the same thing! Energy runs economies, as people are now finally beginning to discover.
    - joshspankit 4y ago
      Only as long as oil keeps it’s hold on the economy.
      - galangalalgol 4y ago
        Also, why os this post already voted off the front page when it has more posts than first five?
        leereeves 4y ago
        Posts that get a lot of comments in a short time fall off the front page by design. I think it's meant to calm overheated discussions.
ajross 4y ago
Are you suggesting we sanction Saudi or drop sanctions on Russia? I buy the hypocrisy argument, but don't understand the direction of the whataboutism? The realpolitik answer is that Russia is (just barely) amenable to international control via sanctions. Saudi is not, owing to it's irreplaceable control over critical resources. And that sucks, and we should do something about it. But we can't do it now, sorry.
- jlmorton 4y ago
  > Saudi is not, owing to it's irreplaceable control over critical resources. I'm not sure I understand the distinction. Russia is a larger producer of oil, and a substantially larger producer of energy products overall.
- pjc50 4y ago
  Saudi are extremely amenable to international control given that they have nothing but oil. They have to import almost all their food! A true embargo would collapse them in weeks. The problem is that (a) they have unlimited bribery funds, secure in Western banks and (b) the US has chosen to back them in their sectarian war against Iran and Iranian proxy forces in Yemen. The US can't even begin to exert pressure on Saudi until it stops arming them! At the very least pull the Patriot batteries and let Iran strike them. https://thehill.com/policy/defense/599065-us-transfers-patriot-missiles-to-saudi-arabia/ https://thehill.com/policy/defense/599065-us-transfers-patri...
- FpUser 4y ago
  >"Are you suggesting we sanction Saudi or drop sanctions on Russia? I buy the hypocrisy argument, but don't understand the direction of the whataboutism?" Where did you see any mention of dropping sanctions on Russia? The post seem to advocate sanctions on Saudis. The US has oil. And yes Saudis are sensitive to sanctions. Not sanctioning Saudis just shows true colors to the rest of the world. See one day you are telling that some XYZ country is bad, bad, bad and the next day whatever bad they do is suddenly ok since it plays to your minute interests. I think that the reaction of any normal person would be something like fuck yourself and go preach your moral values to some other gullible idiots. I do understand the danger though. There are currently whole bunch of not so unimportant countries like China, Russia, India etc. They lately seem to show various degrees of go fuck yourself attitude when it comes to sharing the agenda. of the West. Having Saudis join the block will not do the West any good. No idea how to get out of this situation. However not selling them weapons should be a must.
collegeburner 4y ago
is it really fair to blame America? we are now a net exporter, although obv oil isn't perfectly fungible for purposes of refining and petrochemical production. but the real problem is not America, its other nations who can't produce as much as they consume. if we block saudi arabia and opec then the issue would be other buyers driving up prices for American consumers despite us net exporting. besides europe won't even enforce many restrictions on iran. no way would they get on board with saudi arabia (esp since it would likely mean open more broadly).
- pjc50 4y ago
  As per my other post https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33385983 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33385983, it's the war on Iran that causes the US to prop up Saudi. Neither is really on our side.
- ilyt 4y ago
  > is it really fair to blame America? Absolutely, much of that shitshow in middle east is directly or indirectly thru the actions of US government
  - spc476 4y ago
    The British and French have their fair share of the blame for drawing the borders they way they did.
  - petra 4y ago
  - collegeburner 4y ago
    lol bsfr, you really think the middle east would be a paradise without us? it's "the graveyard of empires" with a 3 thousand year track record of being a mess. british and french imperialism obv didn't help but come on, don't be pretending things would be all rosy if not for America. it would still be a mess just with different people in charge.

by qlkart 4y ago

nathanaldensr 4y ago

Follow the money.

fny 4y ago
Follow the oil.
- nathanaldensr 4y ago
  They might as well be effectively the same thing! Energy runs economies, as people are now finally beginning to discover.
  - joshspankit 4y ago
    Only as long as oil keeps it’s hold on the economy.
    - galangalalgol 4y ago
      Also, why os this post already voted off the front page when it has more posts than first five?
      - leereeves 4y ago
        Posts that get a lot of comments in a short time fall off the front page by design. I think it's meant to calm overheated discussions.

ajross 4y ago

Are you suggesting we sanction Saudi or drop sanctions on Russia? I buy the hypocrisy argument, but don't understand the direction of the whataboutism? The realpolitik answer is that Russia is (just barely) amenable to international control via sanctions. Saudi is not, owing to it's irreplaceable control over critical resources. And that sucks, and we should do something about it. But we can't do it now, sorry.

jlmorton 4y ago
> Saudi is not, owing to it's irreplaceable control over critical resources. I'm not sure I understand the distinction. Russia is a larger producer of oil, and a substantially larger producer of energy products overall.
pjc50 4y ago
Saudi are extremely amenable to international control given that they have nothing but oil. They have to import almost all their food! A true embargo would collapse them in weeks. The problem is that (a) they have unlimited bribery funds, secure in Western banks and (b) the US has chosen to back them in their sectarian war against Iran and Iranian proxy forces in Yemen. The US can't even begin to exert pressure on Saudi until it stops arming them! At the very least pull the Patriot batteries and let Iran strike them. https://thehill.com/policy/defense/599065-us-transfers-patriot-missiles-to-saudi-arabia/ https://thehill.com/policy/defense/599065-us-transfers-patri...
FpUser 4y ago
>"Are you suggesting we sanction Saudi or drop sanctions on Russia? I buy the hypocrisy argument, but don't understand the direction of the whataboutism?" Where did you see any mention of dropping sanctions on Russia? The post seem to advocate sanctions on Saudis. The US has oil. And yes Saudis are sensitive to sanctions. Not sanctioning Saudis just shows true colors to the rest of the world. See one day you are telling that some XYZ country is bad, bad, bad and the next day whatever bad they do is suddenly ok since it plays to your minute interests. I think that the reaction of any normal person would be something like fuck yourself and go preach your moral values to some other gullible idiots. I do understand the danger though. There are currently whole bunch of not so unimportant countries like China, Russia, India etc. They lately seem to show various degrees of go fuck yourself attitude when it comes to sharing the agenda. of the West. Having Saudis join the block will not do the West any good. No idea how to get out of this situation. However not selling them weapons should be a must.

collegeburner 4y ago

is it really fair to blame America? we are now a net exporter, although obv oil isn't perfectly fungible for purposes of refining and petrochemical production. but the real problem is not America, its other nations who can't produce as much as they consume. if we block saudi arabia and opec then the issue would be other buyers driving up prices for American consumers despite us net exporting. besides europe won't even enforce many restrictions on iran. no way would they get on board with saudi arabia (esp since it would likely mean open more broadly).

pjc50 4y ago
As per my other post https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33385983 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33385983, it's the war on Iran that causes the US to prop up Saudi. Neither is really on our side.
ilyt 4y ago
> is it really fair to blame America? Absolutely, much of that shitshow in middle east is directly or indirectly thru the actions of US government
- spc476 4y ago
  The British and French have their fair share of the blame for drawing the borders they way they did.
- petra 4y ago
- collegeburner 4y ago
  lol bsfr, you really think the middle east would be a paradise without us? it's "the graveyard of empires" with a 3 thousand year track record of being a mess. british and french imperialism obv didn't help but come on, don't be pretending things would be all rosy if not for America. it would still be a mess just with different people in charge.