5 ms·

It also happened in 2011, and nearly again in 2014: https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/22/texas-power-grid-extreme-weather/ https://www.texastribune.org/2021/

It also happened in 2011, and nearly again in 2014: https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/22/texas-power-grid-extreme-weather/ https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/22/texas-power-grid-ext... The market has abjectly failed customers in texes - but the utilities made off like bandits charging outrageous amounts each time. The texes power grid is broken and the market won’t fix it. There is a reason the regulations they don’t want to implement exist.

roenxi 4y ago
> It also happened in 2011, and nearly again in 2014 Texas has cheap power though. If I were moving to the US for some reason, I'd consider Texas for it's cheap power then try to mitigate the risks myself. Just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean that changing it makes it better. You're assuming that 100% reliability is the only acceptable outcome. It is possible 99% reliability and alternate mitigation is the best outcome. If people prepare for the power grid going down from time to time that will also prepare for other events and build up resiliency. People freezing is really bad. Relying on a large and complex system working in extreme events is also bad, however. This is one for Texans to resolve for themselves, but there is a story here where the problem is actually the resiliency to the grid failing rather than the failures themselves. Cheap power + good emergency procedures is probably going to be a really cheap path, plus hit a whole heap of alternative disaster planning scenarios.
- katbyte 4y ago
  Texes has cheap power? https://www.dallasnews.com/business/energy/2022/06/02/were-in-trouble-electric-rates-in-texas-have-surged-over-70-as-summer-kicks-in/ https://www.dallasnews.com/business/energy/2022/06/02/were-i... I would argue that when your power bill can skyrocket suddenly due to poor governance and mismanagement of the grid and you pay 1000s you do not have “cheap” power. Other states, provinces, and countries manage to deliver even cheaper power, consistently, without the grid failures and profiteering thanks to regulation. People shouldnt be dead because power companies want to make more money.
  - roenxi 4y ago
    > Other states, provinces, and countries manage to deliver even cheaper power, consistently, without the grid failures and profiteering thanks to regulation. With similar weather patterns? Where are you thinking specifically? > I would argue that when your power bill can skyrocket suddenly due to poor governance and mismanagement of the grid and you pay 1000s you do not have “cheap” power. You feel that Texas' regulatory state is making it too difficult to extract natural gas? Because the article seems to me to be saying they need more nat gas. I disagree with subsidising nat gas for unrelated reasons, but I suppose if Texas has regulated to stop gas extraction I agree with you that they should change that. > People shouldnt be dead because power companies want to make more money. I'm saying that too, you might have detected.
    - shagie 4y ago
      > With similar weather patterns? Where are you thinking specifically? Outlying parts of Texas that are serviced by the main power grids rather than a Texas only power grid? https://www.khou.com/article/news/investigations/texas-power-outage-counties-with-fewer-power-outages-are-not-part-of-state-grid/285-67277280-7fce-42ca-b55b-f8fc639c0889 https://www.khou.com/article/news/investigations/texas-power... > HOUSTON — Some parts of Texas that were battered by the winter storm of 2021 had relatively few homes lose power. > They are primarily in areas outside of those supported by ERCOT, the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, which manages the electric grid for 90% of the state and operates separately from federal oversight and regulation. > El Paso County is one place to experience minimal power outages, despite getting battered by the historic winter storm. > “We had about three thousand people that were out during this period, a thousand of them had outages that were less than five minutes,” said Eddie Gutierrez, vice president of strategic communications for El Paso Electric. However, those power companies have connections that cross state lines and so are federally regulated and had to do winterization of their systems as mandated by the regulators... whereas ERCOT said "yea, well, maybe we'll do it - but you can't make us."
    - katbyte 4y ago
      Yes. states the border texes have cheaper power without the grid failures and price gouging - an old map from before the unregulated utilities increased prices post storm https://howmuch.net/articles/how-much-americans-pay-in-electricity-rates-in-each-state-2019 https://howmuch.net/articles/how-much-americans-pay-in-elect... It’s not a great set of maps but I wasn’t willing to spend more then 60 seconds doing your research for you.
- Retric 4y ago
  Except Texas doesn’t have cheap power. Rather than paying money for peaking power plants that sit idle to handle unusual demand or unexpected failures, regulators instead decided to let power plants charge whatever the market will pay in extreme situations. Net results ends up with occasional brownouts without actual saving anything. The state with the cheapest electricity is actually Washington where residential customers are paying 8.53¢/kWh. Those dam democrats happen to have a lot of dam cheap green power from all those dams.
  - jessaustin 4y ago
    Hydro is not an option for Texas; it is too flat.
    - Retric 4y ago
      Texas has huge shifts in elevation from over 4,500 foot down to sea level (https://geology.com/topographic-physical-map/texas.shtml https://geology.com/topographic-physical-map/texas.shtml) and even a fair number of hydroelectric power plants: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Hydroelectric_power_plants_in_Texas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Hydroelectric_power_p... What it’s missing is all that rainfall that Washington state is known for.
      - jessaustin 4y ago
        That map doesn't really contradict the "Texas is flat" proposition: it takes over 400 miles to rise 3000 feet. OK sure they could have decent hydroelectric near El Paso, if it ever rained there, but the dams listed at your link for the other 95% of the state have less generating capacity together (even if we count the capacity that rightfully belongs to Mexico or Oklahoma) than Wilson Dam in Alabama, which was built in 1924.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        Retric 4y ago

roenxi 4y ago

> It also happened in 2011, and nearly again in 2014 Texas has cheap power though. If I were moving to the US for some reason, I'd consider Texas for it's cheap power then try to mitigate the risks myself. Just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean that changing it makes it better. You're assuming that 100% reliability is the only acceptable outcome. It is possible 99% reliability and alternate mitigation is the best outcome. If people prepare for the power grid going down from time to time that will also prepare for other events and build up resiliency. People freezing is really bad. Relying on a large and complex system working in extreme events is also bad, however. This is one for Texans to resolve for themselves, but there is a story here where the problem is actually the resiliency to the grid failing rather than the failures themselves. Cheap power + good emergency procedures is probably going to be a really cheap path, plus hit a whole heap of alternative disaster planning scenarios.

katbyte 4y ago
Texes has cheap power? https://www.dallasnews.com/business/energy/2022/06/02/were-in-trouble-electric-rates-in-texas-have-surged-over-70-as-summer-kicks-in/ https://www.dallasnews.com/business/energy/2022/06/02/were-i... I would argue that when your power bill can skyrocket suddenly due to poor governance and mismanagement of the grid and you pay 1000s you do not have “cheap” power. Other states, provinces, and countries manage to deliver even cheaper power, consistently, without the grid failures and profiteering thanks to regulation. People shouldnt be dead because power companies want to make more money.
- roenxi 4y ago
  > Other states, provinces, and countries manage to deliver even cheaper power, consistently, without the grid failures and profiteering thanks to regulation. With similar weather patterns? Where are you thinking specifically? > I would argue that when your power bill can skyrocket suddenly due to poor governance and mismanagement of the grid and you pay 1000s you do not have “cheap” power. You feel that Texas' regulatory state is making it too difficult to extract natural gas? Because the article seems to me to be saying they need more nat gas. I disagree with subsidising nat gas for unrelated reasons, but I suppose if Texas has regulated to stop gas extraction I agree with you that they should change that. > People shouldnt be dead because power companies want to make more money. I'm saying that too, you might have detected.
  - shagie 4y ago
    > With similar weather patterns? Where are you thinking specifically? Outlying parts of Texas that are serviced by the main power grids rather than a Texas only power grid? https://www.khou.com/article/news/investigations/texas-power-outage-counties-with-fewer-power-outages-are-not-part-of-state-grid/285-67277280-7fce-42ca-b55b-f8fc639c0889 https://www.khou.com/article/news/investigations/texas-power... > HOUSTON — Some parts of Texas that were battered by the winter storm of 2021 had relatively few homes lose power. > They are primarily in areas outside of those supported by ERCOT, the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, which manages the electric grid for 90% of the state and operates separately from federal oversight and regulation. > El Paso County is one place to experience minimal power outages, despite getting battered by the historic winter storm. > “We had about three thousand people that were out during this period, a thousand of them had outages that were less than five minutes,” said Eddie Gutierrez, vice president of strategic communications for El Paso Electric. However, those power companies have connections that cross state lines and so are federally regulated and had to do winterization of their systems as mandated by the regulators... whereas ERCOT said "yea, well, maybe we'll do it - but you can't make us."
  - katbyte 4y ago
    Yes. states the border texes have cheaper power without the grid failures and price gouging - an old map from before the unregulated utilities increased prices post storm https://howmuch.net/articles/how-much-americans-pay-in-electricity-rates-in-each-state-2019 https://howmuch.net/articles/how-much-americans-pay-in-elect... It’s not a great set of maps but I wasn’t willing to spend more then 60 seconds doing your research for you.
Retric 4y ago
Except Texas doesn’t have cheap power. Rather than paying money for peaking power plants that sit idle to handle unusual demand or unexpected failures, regulators instead decided to let power plants charge whatever the market will pay in extreme situations. Net results ends up with occasional brownouts without actual saving anything. The state with the cheapest electricity is actually Washington where residential customers are paying 8.53¢/kWh. Those dam democrats happen to have a lot of dam cheap green power from all those dams.
- jessaustin 4y ago
  Hydro is not an option for Texas; it is too flat.
  - Retric 4y ago
    Texas has huge shifts in elevation from over 4,500 foot down to sea level (https://geology.com/topographic-physical-map/texas.shtml https://geology.com/topographic-physical-map/texas.shtml) and even a fair number of hydroelectric power plants: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Hydroelectric_power_plants_in_Texas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Hydroelectric_power_p... What it’s missing is all that rainfall that Washington state is known for.
    - jessaustin 4y ago
      That map doesn't really contradict the "Texas is flat" proposition: it takes over 400 miles to rise 3000 feet. OK sure they could have decent hydroelectric near El Paso, if it ever rained there, but the dams listed at your link for the other 95% of the state have less generating capacity together (even if we count the capacity that rightfully belongs to Mexico or Oklahoma) than Wilson Dam in Alabama, which was built in 1924.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - Retric 4y ago