4 ms·

> People who have nothing wrong don't seek out labels and treatment. Agreed, I do think there is something wrong I am just not convinced it is ADHD and my worr

> People who have nothing wrong don't seek out labels and treatment. Agreed, I do think there is something wrong I am just not convinced it is ADHD and my worry is now he has his diagnosis and some pills it won't help him in getting him the help he actually needs which I believe is more related to trauma from an animal attack combined with the pandemic. I know it sounds like I am just disagreeing with his ADHD diagnosis and that I am in some way against ADHD diagnosis but that is not the case at all. As I said my son was diagnosed with ADHD not too long ago. I have no issue with ADHD as a diagnosis I just worry it is the wrong one for this person because they became so obsessed with getting adderall as some kind of fix for everything and when other options such as therapy are suggested they dismiss them instantly as "too much talking".

zrail 4y ago
That's fair. The question is, are the meds helping? People with ADHD react very differently to stimulants than people who don't, to the point where it's usually apparent to others.
- sjy 4y ago
  “For years, it was assumed that stimulants had paradoxical calming effects in ADHD patients, [while] stimulating ‘normal’ individuals … It is now known that low doses of stimulants focus attention and improve executive function in both normal and ADHD subjects.” https://www.nature.com/articles/1301164 https://www.nature.com/articles/1301164
  - pxc 4y ago
    This old myth about ADHD is one of my pet peeves. Stimulant medications don't un-ADHD people. They're a handicap that has similar effects across the whole population, but which is considered highly dangerous and addictive, and for that reason, we only allow its use when we've identified a significant disability in the form of ADHD. But it's not a magic drug which undoes ADHD and has completely different effects on the non-ADHD population.
    - LocalH 4y ago
      I have high hopes for the potential of low psychedelic doses aiding with ADHD, and even higher doses of certain ones from time to time. Psychedelics have stimulant properties, but much less addiction potential than actual stimulants (when was the last time you saw someone physically addicted to LSD or psilocybin mushrooms?). I had an intense DMT experience three years ago and still feel benefits and positive change from it (although it's about time I arrange another such experience).
- satysin 4y ago
  > The question is, are the meds helping? According to him yes, he can concentrate well now. He doesn't talk about his other issues and when I bring them up he doesn't say anything. According to his wife yes his concentration is improved but not his anxiety, depression or anhedonia.
pxc 4y ago
> I know it sounds like I am just disagreeing with his ADHD diagnosis and that I am in some way against ADHD diagnosis but that is not the case at all. As I said my son was diagnosed with ADHD not too long ago. I have no issue with ADHD as a diagnosis I just worry it is the wrong one for this person because they became so obsessed with getting adderall as some kind of fix for everything That is really hard. Your son may have to figure that one out on his own. If I can give some unsolicited advice: Make sure your son knows that you feel his problems are real and that he has important things to learn from others who have ADHD, because they do struggle with so many similar things. If it's ‘you're barking up the wrong tree’, he might be likely to reflexively dismiss you. But if it's ‘I see why you think this is a good place to look for help, but don't limit your search for tools to deal with this to things associated with ADHD’, it might be something he can better receive. Also, as someone who has been diagnosed with ADHD and takes stimulant medication for it: - there are aspects of ADHD that stimulant medication just doesn't help with - there are aspects of ADHD that stimulant medication can make *worse*, if you're not careful - ADHD can be closely related to anxiety, even when ADHD is almost certainly part of the picture— when you have ADHD traits and behaviors, it's natural to fall into a habit of *leaning into those ADHD traits and behaviors* in order to cope with your anxiety, as a form of avoidance Even if your son is certain that he has ADHD and he is basically right, that doesn't mean that his trauma doesn't matter or that there's not an interplay between his trauma and his ADHD. He'll be more successful in treating his ADHD if he also addresses his trauma, and working with a therapist can really help for the aspects of ADHD where stimiulant medication is not always that helpful a tool.
- satysin 4y ago
  That is a very thoughtful reply pxc, thank you. Perhaps I am wrong but reading your reply I got the impression you thought I was talking about my son in my original reply? I just wanted to clarify that is not the case, I was talking about an adult family member not my son :) As for my son it is quite clear he has ADHD and I indeed support him in every way I can. Currently that is not via medication however not because I object to it but because he only has one kidney and all of the doctors we have seen agree that we should try to avoid medication for now. Especially as he does not present hyperactivity. I am sure it is something he will try when older but for now we are trying to help develop tools (both mental and physical) to provide a supportive environment for him and it seems to be working quite well. Regarding you point on anxiety and ADHD, this is very relevant to my son as he has developed some anxiety over the past few years (moving to a country where he had to learn a new language and of course the pandemic). We certainly notice[d] an increase with inattention when he is anxious. For example when my wife had to travel for work recently his anxiety was much higher. As you mentioned I ensure I do not use dismissive terms when he talks to me about how he is feeling. We have built a good, open way of communicating so when he feels anxious or overwhelmed he knows he can talk to us without issue. I have to admit I have huge anxieties of my own as to whether I am doing a good job in supporting him but I am trying to do everything I can. Again I appreciate you taking the time to share your experience and knowledge.
tpmoney 4y ago
>Agreed, I do think there is something wrong I am just not convinced it is ADHD and my worry is now he has his diagnosis and some pills it won't help him in getting him the help he actually needs which I believe is more related to trauma from an animal attack combined with the pandemic. I think the problem that most people in life that suffer from some sort of mental problem – be it depression, ADHD, Autism, axiety or any number of other issues – encounter throughout their entire life are hundreds of well meaning and otherwise people all with their own personal opinions about what's wrong with them. At best these people are doing nothing but adding noise, but at worst they're contributing to a life of hurt and unhappiness with being unable to be "normal". When these people find something that resonates with what's going on, they will latch onto that thing, whether or not it's the right thing. But for those people (and frankly for their well being) if it's wrong, that's often still better than having nothing at all. The curse of having a mental disorder is that until you're diagnosed, no one believes anything is wrong with you they just think you're an asshole. After you're diagnosed, EVERYTHING in your life gets filtered through that disorder. But the important thing is people no longer think you're an asshole, which means they're more open to looking at something else. Your friend has a much better chance of getting the help they need by someone looking at their diagnosis and going "hey, I can see where the docs got this, but these other things don't quite fit and maybe you've been mis-diagnosed or have some other thing" than they probably ever did before the diagnosis. So sometimes even the wrong diagnosis is helpful. But you need to keep in mind that you're almost certainly not the only other person telling them the diagnosis must be wrong. And at a certain point when you know something is wrong with you and everyone keeps shooting down things around you, you become resistant to listening to ANYONE who wants to shoot you down, no matter how right. If you're worried about your friend, your best bet is to encourage them to keep digging, keep learning and keep checking rather than trying to encourage them to stop thinking they have ADHD. Because in the end, continued evaluation will either confirm the diagnosis or get them on a path to finding a better answer. Where as fighting them on it will just encourage tuning you out and digging in.

zrail 4y ago

That's fair. The question is, are the meds helping? People with ADHD react very differently to stimulants than people who don't, to the point where it's usually apparent to others.

sjy 4y ago
“For years, it was assumed that stimulants had paradoxical calming effects in ADHD patients, [while] stimulating ‘normal’ individuals … It is now known that low doses of stimulants focus attention and improve executive function in both normal and ADHD subjects.” https://www.nature.com/articles/1301164 https://www.nature.com/articles/1301164
- pxc 4y ago
  This old myth about ADHD is one of my pet peeves. Stimulant medications don't un-ADHD people. They're a handicap that has similar effects across the whole population, but which is considered highly dangerous and addictive, and for that reason, we only allow its use when we've identified a significant disability in the form of ADHD. But it's not a magic drug which undoes ADHD and has completely different effects on the non-ADHD population.
  - LocalH 4y ago
    I have high hopes for the potential of low psychedelic doses aiding with ADHD, and even higher doses of certain ones from time to time. Psychedelics have stimulant properties, but much less addiction potential than actual stimulants (when was the last time you saw someone physically addicted to LSD or psilocybin mushrooms?). I had an intense DMT experience three years ago and still feel benefits and positive change from it (although it's about time I arrange another such experience).
satysin 4y ago
> The question is, are the meds helping? According to him yes, he can concentrate well now. He doesn't talk about his other issues and when I bring them up he doesn't say anything. According to his wife yes his concentration is improved but not his anxiety, depression or anhedonia.

pxc 4y ago

> I know it sounds like I am just disagreeing with his ADHD diagnosis and that I am in some way against ADHD diagnosis but that is not the case at all. As I said my son was diagnosed with ADHD not too long ago. I have no issue with ADHD as a diagnosis I just worry it is the wrong one for this person because they became so obsessed with getting adderall as some kind of fix for everything That is really hard. Your son may have to figure that one out on his own. If I can give some unsolicited advice: Make sure your son knows that you feel his problems are real and that he has important things to learn from others who have ADHD, because they do struggle with so many similar things. If it's ‘you're barking up the wrong tree’, he might be likely to reflexively dismiss you. But if it's ‘I see why you think this is a good place to look for help, but don't limit your search for tools to deal with this to things associated with ADHD’, it might be something he can better receive. Also, as someone who has been diagnosed with ADHD and takes stimulant medication for it: - there are aspects of ADHD that stimulant medication just doesn't help with - there are aspects of ADHD that stimulant medication can make *worse*, if you're not careful - ADHD can be closely related to anxiety, even when ADHD is almost certainly part of the picture— when you have ADHD traits and behaviors, it's natural to fall into a habit of *leaning into those ADHD traits and behaviors* in order to cope with your anxiety, as a form of avoidance Even if your son is certain that he has ADHD and he is basically right, that doesn't mean that his trauma doesn't matter or that there's not an interplay between his trauma and his ADHD. He'll be more successful in treating his ADHD if he also addresses his trauma, and working with a therapist can really help for the aspects of ADHD where stimiulant medication is not always that helpful a tool.

satysin 4y ago
That is a very thoughtful reply pxc, thank you. Perhaps I am wrong but reading your reply I got the impression you thought I was talking about my son in my original reply? I just wanted to clarify that is not the case, I was talking about an adult family member not my son :) As for my son it is quite clear he has ADHD and I indeed support him in every way I can. Currently that is not via medication however not because I object to it but because he only has one kidney and all of the doctors we have seen agree that we should try to avoid medication for now. Especially as he does not present hyperactivity. I am sure it is something he will try when older but for now we are trying to help develop tools (both mental and physical) to provide a supportive environment for him and it seems to be working quite well. Regarding you point on anxiety and ADHD, this is very relevant to my son as he has developed some anxiety over the past few years (moving to a country where he had to learn a new language and of course the pandemic). We certainly notice[d] an increase with inattention when he is anxious. For example when my wife had to travel for work recently his anxiety was much higher. As you mentioned I ensure I do not use dismissive terms when he talks to me about how he is feeling. We have built a good, open way of communicating so when he feels anxious or overwhelmed he knows he can talk to us without issue. I have to admit I have huge anxieties of my own as to whether I am doing a good job in supporting him but I am trying to do everything I can. Again I appreciate you taking the time to share your experience and knowledge.

tpmoney 4y ago

>Agreed, I do think there is something wrong I am just not convinced it is ADHD and my worry is now he has his diagnosis and some pills it won't help him in getting him the help he actually needs which I believe is more related to trauma from an animal attack combined with the pandemic. I think the problem that most people in life that suffer from some sort of mental problem – be it depression, ADHD, Autism, axiety or any number of other issues – encounter throughout their entire life are hundreds of well meaning and otherwise people all with their own personal opinions about what's wrong with them. At best these people are doing nothing but adding noise, but at worst they're contributing to a life of hurt and unhappiness with being unable to be "normal". When these people find something that resonates with what's going on, they will latch onto that thing, whether or not it's the right thing. But for those people (and frankly for their well being) if it's wrong, that's often still better than having nothing at all. The curse of having a mental disorder is that until you're diagnosed, no one believes anything is wrong with you they just think you're an asshole. After you're diagnosed, EVERYTHING in your life gets filtered through that disorder. But the important thing is people no longer think you're an asshole, which means they're more open to looking at something else. Your friend has a much better chance of getting the help they need by someone looking at their diagnosis and going "hey, I can see where the docs got this, but these other things don't quite fit and maybe you've been mis-diagnosed or have some other thing" than they probably ever did before the diagnosis. So sometimes even the wrong diagnosis is helpful. But you need to keep in mind that you're almost certainly not the only other person telling them the diagnosis must be wrong. And at a certain point when you know something is wrong with you and everyone keeps shooting down things around you, you become resistant to listening to ANYONE who wants to shoot you down, no matter how right. If you're worried about your friend, your best bet is to encourage them to keep digging, keep learning and keep checking rather than trying to encourage them to stop thinking they have ADHD. Because in the end, continued evaluation will either confirm the diagnosis or get them on a path to finding a better answer. Where as fighting them on it will just encourage tuning you out and digging in.