5 ms·

To be fair to your mother, this particular advice and view was rampant when I grew up in the 80s/90s. My experience was that this is quite backwards. Physical a

by jemmyw 4y ago

To be fair to your mother, this particular advice and view was rampant when I grew up in the 80s/90s. My experience was that this is quite backwards. Physical altercations at school didn't hurt that much, but the name calling, social shunning and constant verbal put down was very painful and has affected my whole life.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
PaulHoule 4y ago
I’d agree. I was hurt by bullying enough that if I had ever made it big I would have found the most outrageous bullying case I could find and try to sue a school district out of existence? Maybe if teachers thought they could lose their pension maybe they would put a stop to bullying.
- oneoff786 4y ago
  Suing to threaten the pensions of underpaid teachers. Makin’ a difference in the world.
  - MonkeyClub 4y ago
    Does raise an interesting question, though: Is it the teachers' or the parents' responsibility to teach manners to a child? Isn't this something that you'd pick up at home first, before ever stepping a foot into an institutionalized pedagogical setting? Perhaps instead of suing the entire school district, GP should rather sue the parents of the offending child? /s To remove the tongue from the cheek, though, and provide some anecdata in the same breath, let me say that I have a number of close friends who are teachers; their constant complaint is that the children reach school already too spoiled (in the rude and egocentric sense). Which apparently gets worse every year. It's easier to make a case for a society-wide pandemic of negligent upbringing by parents who - goes without saying - are under-educated in child rearing, lack the traditional support networks ("it takes a village to raise a child") and generally overburdened by life's other demands. The children then get passed over to underpaid and overworked teachers (and overflowing classrooms), where the egos of the little cute monsters clash, occasionally loudly and physically, more frequently in passive-aggressive, bullyish manners. But yeah, "back in mah day..."
    - gabereiser 4y ago
      100% the parents… teachers can influence but it’s the parents legal responsibility to not raise a monster.
      - blooalien 4y ago
        Legal, ethical, and moral responsibility…
    - scotty79 4y ago
      It's schools responsibility to ensure safety. If you are forcing a person to interact daily with bad people the least you should do is ensure that those bad people won't hurt this person.
    - Nomentatus 4y ago
      An old guy's perspective: It's not this or that lesson or parental intent that matters, it's the sheer amount of one-on-one interaction with the parent(s), that matters most. IIRC, that's about twenty minutes a week for most kids. Nomads (See the book The Old Way by Elizabeth Marshal Thomas) don't have the same behavior problems at all; but the kids are getting an incredibly high amount of one on one interactions with their parents (mother in particular, while gathering, say berries, with them.)
      - MonkeyClub 4y ago
        I think you're spot on with this. Contact affects manners, and also gives opportunity for bad manners to be weeded out early. Definitely not something that twenty minutes a day is enough for. And perhaps such a lack not only allows for bad patterns to emerge and fester, but also traumatizes the child. Modern city life, and its discontents, I guess.
  - kodah 4y ago
    Eh, look at PaulHoule's statement with some empathy. I got bullied by a teacher, probably more, starting in fourth grade. I've written about it on this website. It can develop authority issues, trust issues, or both. It's a lifetime of work to undo those things. Similar to people posting their stories with names with the hope for justice in some form or fashion, suing someone puts the details out for bare. He would likely never get the state government to actually repeal pensions, but he would get to tell his story in a media that people would definitely be paying attention to. There's a valid question of whether any of the approaches above are healthy for a society. I'd venture to say no, but that is the way our society is.
- tb_technical 4y ago
  I'm sorry that happened to you - I was bullied early in life too, and it's horrible. It's frustrating that people downvoted your comment. It's a failure, from a lack of empathy, to understand that the reason you want to make an example of the school district is because you were one of the victims of bullying.
gabereiser 4y ago
“Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will hurt for life” is how I used to say it. Never say anything that couldn’t stand as the last thing you say to someone. You’re words matter more than you realize.
- aeternum 4y ago
  Most people have never come anywhere close to being beat sufficiently to have a bone broken. I guarantee you words come nothing close to that experience. Being beat to that extent can cause both physical and emotional pain for life.
  - gabereiser 4y ago
    Not dismissing physical abuse at all. That’s not a stick, nor a stone. I’ve had numerous bones broken. Some because of me. Some because of others. Some from my parents. One from my child (technically my fault). Both forms of abuse hurt. When the abuse goes on for a long time it feels like it takes 10x as long to heal.
    - aeternum 4y ago
      The rhyme is about physical abuse though, it's not like accidentally falling into a pile of sticks and stones was a frequent occurrence.
- theGnuMe 4y ago
  I mean words only hurt if you let them in so that’s why we think of things this way. It sucks to be in a relationship with someone who can’t forgive or forget. Mean vindictive people who will twist words and who are suppose to love you unconditionally.
  - booboofixer 4y ago
    Something to consider, as more and more people say things to you, you start to understand the different ways in which people are terrible, which isn't all that bad because nobody is perfect. But then you start to understand the ways in which all people are flawed, that's when you really lose faith in humanity. So words might not hurt, but they offer more and more reasons to disengage, not just from terrible people, but from otherwise "normal, friendly, would-never-commit-a-crime people"
bergenty 4y ago
Fists fights are great. Quick resolution of said problem and emotions. One of my best friends over the last few decades was a person I hated till we physically fought each other in our 20s. Another example is American parents. Since you can’t spank your kids you have to resort to hurting their feelings with words to discipline them. No wonder teens in this country hate their parents.
- xivzgrev 4y ago
  Those aren’t the only options. My mom enforced clear consequences based on what I valued and she valued. Break rules, I lose computer time. Trespass on someone’s property, I write an apology letter and deliver it to them. Etc
carabiner 4y ago
It's incredible how common the "it's just words" refrain is on HN. Wars happen over words. Marriages and divorces too.
- robomartin 4y ago
  > Wars happen over words. Marriages and divorces too. Words are not the cause of these events. They might, in several ways, trigger them, of course. After all, a declaration of war is nothing but words and so is a legal divorce filing. However, for these and other conflicts, if we dug down to root causes, we always find a lot more than just spoken or written words. Two that come to mind would be, in the case of war, strategic/national interests and, for divorce, infidelity or serious lack of agreement on matters the couple deem to be important.

by jemmyw 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

PaulHoule 4y ago

I’d agree. I was hurt by bullying enough that if I had ever made it big I would have found the most outrageous bullying case I could find and try to sue a school district out of existence? Maybe if teachers thought they could lose their pension maybe they would put a stop to bullying.

oneoff786 4y ago
Suing to threaten the pensions of underpaid teachers. Makin’ a difference in the world.
- MonkeyClub 4y ago
  Does raise an interesting question, though: Is it the teachers' or the parents' responsibility to teach manners to a child? Isn't this something that you'd pick up at home first, before ever stepping a foot into an institutionalized pedagogical setting? Perhaps instead of suing the entire school district, GP should rather sue the parents of the offending child? /s To remove the tongue from the cheek, though, and provide some anecdata in the same breath, let me say that I have a number of close friends who are teachers; their constant complaint is that the children reach school already too spoiled (in the rude and egocentric sense). Which apparently gets worse every year. It's easier to make a case for a society-wide pandemic of negligent upbringing by parents who - goes without saying - are under-educated in child rearing, lack the traditional support networks ("it takes a village to raise a child") and generally overburdened by life's other demands. The children then get passed over to underpaid and overworked teachers (and overflowing classrooms), where the egos of the little cute monsters clash, occasionally loudly and physically, more frequently in passive-aggressive, bullyish manners. But yeah, "back in mah day..."
  - gabereiser 4y ago
    100% the parents… teachers can influence but it’s the parents legal responsibility to not raise a monster.
    - blooalien 4y ago
      Legal, ethical, and moral responsibility…
  - scotty79 4y ago
    It's schools responsibility to ensure safety. If you are forcing a person to interact daily with bad people the least you should do is ensure that those bad people won't hurt this person.
  - Nomentatus 4y ago
    An old guy's perspective: It's not this or that lesson or parental intent that matters, it's the sheer amount of one-on-one interaction with the parent(s), that matters most. IIRC, that's about twenty minutes a week for most kids. Nomads (See the book The Old Way by Elizabeth Marshal Thomas) don't have the same behavior problems at all; but the kids are getting an incredibly high amount of one on one interactions with their parents (mother in particular, while gathering, say berries, with them.)
    - MonkeyClub 4y ago
      I think you're spot on with this. Contact affects manners, and also gives opportunity for bad manners to be weeded out early. Definitely not something that twenty minutes a day is enough for. And perhaps such a lack not only allows for bad patterns to emerge and fester, but also traumatizes the child. Modern city life, and its discontents, I guess.
- kodah 4y ago
  Eh, look at PaulHoule's statement with some empathy. I got bullied by a teacher, probably more, starting in fourth grade. I've written about it on this website. It can develop authority issues, trust issues, or both. It's a lifetime of work to undo those things. Similar to people posting their stories with names with the hope for justice in some form or fashion, suing someone puts the details out for bare. He would likely never get the state government to actually repeal pensions, but he would get to tell his story in a media that people would definitely be paying attention to. There's a valid question of whether any of the approaches above are healthy for a society. I'd venture to say no, but that is the way our society is.
tb_technical 4y ago
I'm sorry that happened to you - I was bullied early in life too, and it's horrible. It's frustrating that people downvoted your comment. It's a failure, from a lack of empathy, to understand that the reason you want to make an example of the school district is because you were one of the victims of bullying.

gabereiser 4y ago

“Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will hurt for life” is how I used to say it. Never say anything that couldn’t stand as the last thing you say to someone. You’re words matter more than you realize.

aeternum 4y ago
Most people have never come anywhere close to being beat sufficiently to have a bone broken. I guarantee you words come nothing close to that experience. Being beat to that extent can cause both physical and emotional pain for life.
- gabereiser 4y ago
  Not dismissing physical abuse at all. That’s not a stick, nor a stone. I’ve had numerous bones broken. Some because of me. Some because of others. Some from my parents. One from my child (technically my fault). Both forms of abuse hurt. When the abuse goes on for a long time it feels like it takes 10x as long to heal.
  - aeternum 4y ago
    The rhyme is about physical abuse though, it's not like accidentally falling into a pile of sticks and stones was a frequent occurrence.
theGnuMe 4y ago
I mean words only hurt if you let them in so that’s why we think of things this way. It sucks to be in a relationship with someone who can’t forgive or forget. Mean vindictive people who will twist words and who are suppose to love you unconditionally.
- booboofixer 4y ago
  Something to consider, as more and more people say things to you, you start to understand the different ways in which people are terrible, which isn't all that bad because nobody is perfect. But then you start to understand the ways in which all people are flawed, that's when you really lose faith in humanity. So words might not hurt, but they offer more and more reasons to disengage, not just from terrible people, but from otherwise "normal, friendly, would-never-commit-a-crime people"

bergenty 4y ago

Fists fights are great. Quick resolution of said problem and emotions. One of my best friends over the last few decades was a person I hated till we physically fought each other in our 20s. Another example is American parents. Since you can’t spank your kids you have to resort to hurting their feelings with words to discipline them. No wonder teens in this country hate their parents.

xivzgrev 4y ago
Those aren’t the only options. My mom enforced clear consequences based on what I valued and she valued. Break rules, I lose computer time. Trespass on someone’s property, I write an apology letter and deliver it to them. Etc

carabiner 4y ago

It's incredible how common the "it's just words" refrain is on HN. Wars happen over words. Marriages and divorces too.

robomartin 4y ago
> Wars happen over words. Marriages and divorces too. Words are not the cause of these events. They might, in several ways, trigger them, of course. After all, a declaration of war is nothing but words and so is a legal divorce filing. However, for these and other conflicts, if we dug down to root causes, we always find a lot more than just spoken or written words. Two that come to mind would be, in the case of war, strategic/national interests and, for divorce, infidelity or serious lack of agreement on matters the couple deem to be important.