7 ms·

Mental Health Diagnosis, even by longtime professionals, is notoriously unrealiable. Research keeps finding that it is determined more by the attitude, experien

Mental Health Diagnosis, even by longtime professionals, is notoriously unrealiable. Research keeps finding that it is determined more by the attitude, experience and values (ie. for example religious values) of the person doing the diagnosis. In practice, the number of clients/patients complaining that their diagnosis was changed something like 10 times, with an ever longer list of ever more serious problems, while treatments don't work, but DO interfere with life. And then there are mandatory treatments that keep being researched as worse than doing nothing. And, of course, there is the famous study of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment And it's more recent, less dramatic, but probably more valid cousin: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/07/190708131152.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/07/190708131152.h... Add to that that everyone feels capable of making such diagnoses themselves anyway. In every ended relationship these days, it seems, the relationship ended because the woman was schizophrenic and the man nacissist ... or vice versa. It used to be the case that if a person is "functional", which usually means able to hold down a job for at least a couple of months at a time, they were psychologically healthy. So why not make mental health diagnoses on tiktok, in bars, in ... everywhere? Yes it's not very valid, but everyone's doing it anyway ... and the official way to do it is not much more valid than doing things that way. This way, hopefully, people can see mental health diagnosis as what it really is: 99% bullshit.

gsatic 4y ago
Sure it can be unreliable cuz we are dealing with the brain which as a system is less understood than a cyclone. Its natural the pros will get things wrong cause of the complexity and dynamic nature of the issues, but don't kid yourself that your SO or family members or friends or work mates are going to do a better job. If they have never handled the issue before it's almost guaranteed they will create new issues and then cry about or hide behind their good intdntions after things blow up in their face.
- candiodari 4y ago
  > Its natural the pros will get things wrong cause of the complexity and dynamic nature of the issues, but don't kid yourself that your SO or family members or friends or work mates are going to do a better job. I would expect "professionals" to do a better job. They don't. Otherwise ... one might point out Kenny Rogers is a professional: he's always been paid for his role (I doubt much acting was involved) in MTV's show "jackass". Being a "pro" means nothing, and certainly does not mean you beat amateurs. Plus, this is hacker news. In CS most amateurs, by virtue of actually liking what they do and putting in more effort, beat most professionals. Certainly on an individual level. > If they have never handled the issue before it's almost guaranteed they will create new issues and then cry about or hide behind their good intdntions after things blow up in their face. This is exactly the behaviour we keep seeing from professionals. Specifically, mental health has nothing remotely like the medical profession's responsibility, they do not accept the consequences of what they do, and they always hide behind their "good" intentions (scare quotes because: pros are by definition paid for their good intentions) Here's a story of situations mental health "professionals" created: https://elan.school/83-keyed-up https://elan.school/83-keyed-up The history of psychology and psychiatry is full of lies, deceit and, more than anything else: abuse. Mostly of underage girls. One might point out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Freudian_Coverup https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Freudian_Coverup What was the best-selling product of dr. Sigmund Freud? I will point out his name is still revered by current psychologists. That product was: testifying in court how girls (and boys, though much less often) wanted to be raped, and thereby caused and carried guilt for being raped. In addition to this he silenced victims ... with violence. Not for free, of course. Also with drugs, therapy, making them doubt themselves, ... whatever he could. Current psychologists largely still do not see a problem with either his theories (they'll say they're "superseded") or his actions. One can only assume his status as the best earning psychologist ever has something to do with that. The brain is understood well enough to totally discredit 90% of psychology. It has just never been the intention of psychologists to be accurate. That's literally not what the science entails. They want to change the world for the better. Lying to accomplish that may be a grey zone, but it is quite well accepted this is part of how psychology works. It's like political science. Whether some claim is true or not is, at best, considered secondary to its effect on people. Perhaps not ideal, but let's say useful. For example, a claim that you will find well supported, but not in psychology is that abused people ... are very likely to abuse others. It's of course a controversial claim, but it's pretty well supported. Psychologists will not accept it. Now this, I guess, can be valid position, because if you want to change the world for the better, then perhaps not accepting this claim is the right thing to do. But none of that has any bearing on the truth of it.
faeriechangling 4y ago
It’s not about the science, it’s about the social structures we’ve built around disability. Call it bullshit all you want. I can climb on the rooftops and scream “mental health diagnosis is bullshit!” and at the end of the day I still legally have the diagnosis’s I have, I get social and tax benefits from being disabled, people whisper about (correct) rumours of me being disabled, I still belong to the disabled identity group regardless of the scientific validity of grouping us. I’ve had similar “it’s all bs so why care about self-diagnosis” and there are good reasons. First physical health conditions can be misdiagnosed as developmental disabilities. It fucking alarms me the people with no childhood history of a mental disorder will self-diagnose themselves with it as adults. The second is there are some people who clearly aren’t all right upstairs and there is a risk of diluting resources. I honestly am fatalistic about the issue though and think eventually the mental health status quo will implode
Eleison23 4y ago
I frequently receive psychiatric evaluations, and every time the doc justifies it to me, she (it is always a woman) she explains it based on my current affect at that time. Like if I am affable and outgoing, I receive a favorable diagnosis, but if I am in a bad mood, sort of standoffish, quiet or retiring, I receive a negative diagnosis. Also since they are clinical psychiatrists I always 100% encounter them in a clinical setting where I already suffer from "white coat syndrome" so that just factors into the mess.

gsatic 4y ago

Sure it can be unreliable cuz we are dealing with the brain which as a system is less understood than a cyclone. Its natural the pros will get things wrong cause of the complexity and dynamic nature of the issues, but don't kid yourself that your SO or family members or friends or work mates are going to do a better job. If they have never handled the issue before it's almost guaranteed they will create new issues and then cry about or hide behind their good intdntions after things blow up in their face.

candiodari 4y ago
> Its natural the pros will get things wrong cause of the complexity and dynamic nature of the issues, but don't kid yourself that your SO or family members or friends or work mates are going to do a better job. I would expect "professionals" to do a better job. They don't. Otherwise ... one might point out Kenny Rogers is a professional: he's always been paid for his role (I doubt much acting was involved) in MTV's show "jackass". Being a "pro" means nothing, and certainly does not mean you beat amateurs. Plus, this is hacker news. In CS most amateurs, by virtue of actually liking what they do and putting in more effort, beat most professionals. Certainly on an individual level. > If they have never handled the issue before it's almost guaranteed they will create new issues and then cry about or hide behind their good intdntions after things blow up in their face. This is exactly the behaviour we keep seeing from professionals. Specifically, mental health has nothing remotely like the medical profession's responsibility, they do not accept the consequences of what they do, and they always hide behind their "good" intentions (scare quotes because: pros are by definition paid for their good intentions) Here's a story of situations mental health "professionals" created: https://elan.school/83-keyed-up https://elan.school/83-keyed-up The history of psychology and psychiatry is full of lies, deceit and, more than anything else: abuse. Mostly of underage girls. One might point out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Freudian_Coverup https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Freudian_Coverup What was the best-selling product of dr. Sigmund Freud? I will point out his name is still revered by current psychologists. That product was: testifying in court how girls (and boys, though much less often) wanted to be raped, and thereby caused and carried guilt for being raped. In addition to this he silenced victims ... with violence. Not for free, of course. Also with drugs, therapy, making them doubt themselves, ... whatever he could. Current psychologists largely still do not see a problem with either his theories (they'll say they're "superseded") or his actions. One can only assume his status as the best earning psychologist ever has something to do with that. The brain is understood well enough to totally discredit 90% of psychology. It has just never been the intention of psychologists to be accurate. That's literally not what the science entails. They want to change the world for the better. Lying to accomplish that may be a grey zone, but it is quite well accepted this is part of how psychology works. It's like political science. Whether some claim is true or not is, at best, considered secondary to its effect on people. Perhaps not ideal, but let's say useful. For example, a claim that you will find well supported, but not in psychology is that abused people ... are very likely to abuse others. It's of course a controversial claim, but it's pretty well supported. Psychologists will not accept it. Now this, I guess, can be valid position, because if you want to change the world for the better, then perhaps not accepting this claim is the right thing to do. But none of that has any bearing on the truth of it.

faeriechangling 4y ago

It’s not about the science, it’s about the social structures we’ve built around disability. Call it bullshit all you want. I can climb on the rooftops and scream “mental health diagnosis is bullshit!” and at the end of the day I still legally have the diagnosis’s I have, I get social and tax benefits from being disabled, people whisper about (correct) rumours of me being disabled, I still belong to the disabled identity group regardless of the scientific validity of grouping us. I’ve had similar “it’s all bs so why care about self-diagnosis” and there are good reasons. First physical health conditions can be misdiagnosed as developmental disabilities. It fucking alarms me the people with no childhood history of a mental disorder will self-diagnose themselves with it as adults. The second is there are some people who clearly aren’t all right upstairs and there is a risk of diluting resources. I honestly am fatalistic about the issue though and think eventually the mental health status quo will implode

Eleison23 4y ago

I frequently receive psychiatric evaluations, and every time the doc justifies it to me, she (it is always a woman) she explains it based on my current affect at that time. Like if I am affable and outgoing, I receive a favorable diagnosis, but if I am in a bad mood, sort of standoffish, quiet or retiring, I receive a negative diagnosis. Also since they are clinical psychiatrists I always 100% encounter them in a clinical setting where I already suffer from "white coat syndrome" so that just factors into the mess.