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> But for me the point of Linux is being able to understand and customize how everything works. I have always thought that is a valuable feature of a Linux sys

by amluto 4y ago

> But for me the point of Linux is being able to understand and customize how everything works. I have always thought that is a valuable feature of a Linux system, too. That being said, I’ve also contemplated init scripts and wondered how that could possibly work. And, as anyone who has troubleshooted a stale daemon subprocess, a malfunctioning pidfile, or a messed up rc symlink can attest, legacy init scripts do not actually function very well. Systemd may be far from perfect, but it’s a vast improvement over initscripts.

rascul 4y ago
> legacy init scripts do not actually function very well. They function as well as they're written. Some people just shouldn't be writing shell scripts that other people use at their current level.
- theamk 4y ago
  How about apache authors? The problem of runaway CGI sub-processes is one of my favorite examples of traditional init scripts falling short.
  - rascul 4y ago
    Is that an issue with the init script or with Apache?
- Spivak 4y ago
  That’s kinda the point, just run your process with no regard to daemonizing, write to stdout, stderr, crash normally with panics, don’t bother forking, don’t clean up fds, don’t think at all about privs, what’s a pid file?, what’s /dev/log?, what’s a scheduler?, and let systemd do all of this correctly for all services regardless of how well written they are.
- none_to_remain 4y ago
  Some times I have looked at what it takes to write an actually somewhat portable shell script and I decided was one of those people Luckily I've never been called upon to write a shell script that went beyond "works on the bash we have"
cat_plus_plus 4y ago
I troubleshoot these things by rebooting my Raspberry Pi, you do something different on your personal devices?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ilyt 4y ago
We literally removed ~10k lines of code that was just dealing with sysv init scripts bugs when moving to systemd. I have few issues with systemd but benefits far outweight the cons

by amluto 4y ago

rascul 4y ago

> legacy init scripts do not actually function very well. They function as well as they're written. Some people just shouldn't be writing shell scripts that other people use at their current level.

theamk 4y ago
How about apache authors? The problem of runaway CGI sub-processes is one of my favorite examples of traditional init scripts falling short.
- rascul 4y ago
  Is that an issue with the init script or with Apache?
Spivak 4y ago
That’s kinda the point, just run your process with no regard to daemonizing, write to stdout, stderr, crash normally with panics, don’t bother forking, don’t clean up fds, don’t think at all about privs, what’s a pid file?, what’s /dev/log?, what’s a scheduler?, and let systemd do all of this correctly for all services regardless of how well written they are.
none_to_remain 4y ago
Some times I have looked at what it takes to write an actually somewhat portable shell script and I decided was one of those people Luckily I've never been called upon to write a shell script that went beyond "works on the bash we have"

cat_plus_plus 4y ago

I troubleshoot these things by rebooting my Raspberry Pi, you do something different on your personal devices?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

ilyt 4y ago

We literally removed ~10k lines of code that was just dealing with sysv init scripts bugs when moving to systemd. I have few issues with systemd but benefits far outweight the cons