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The Boring Company is a failure. He's had many other failures within companies: automated driving, Tesla solar panels Though he's the CEO of SpaceX, it's reall

by ipqk 4y ago

The Boring Company is a failure. He's had many other failures within companies: automated driving, Tesla solar panels Though he's the CEO of SpaceX, it's really run by Gwynne Shotwell. You look at his wikipedia, and there's like 10 different things he's currently involved with, so yes, he looks like a guy that gets bored and moves on the other things.

ComplexSystems 4y ago
I don't think it makes sense to compare a giant, multibillionaire organization like Twitter to something like the Boring Company, which was never really intended to be a main venture.
xiphias2 4y ago
Why would the boring company be a failure? I expect creating tunnels 20 years from now as important as right now. Traffic jams are not going away magically, but automation can bring the cost of creating tunnels down, which can increase the total market significantly. Time is helping the company (just like other projects Elon has started), so there's no rush to scale up and turn profit.
- mola 4y ago
  How are tunnels solving traffic jams?
  - nequo 4y ago
    Not solving but alleviating, by rerouting transiting traffic through bypass routes underground. For example, in Washington DC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9th_and_12th_Street_Expressways https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9th_and_12th_Street_Expressway...
    - esclerofilo 4y ago
      But does rerouting traffic through other bypasses actually alleviate traffic? > Motorways and bypasses generate traffic, that is, produce extra traffic, partly by inducing people to travel who would not otherwise have done so by making the new route more convenient than the old, partly by people who go out of their direct route to enjoy the greater convenience of the new road, and partly by people who use the towns bypassed because they are more convenient for shopping and visits when through traffic has been removed From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand
      - nequo 4y ago
        Do look at the "Studies" section of the same article, too.[1] It is far from established that induced demand outweighs the capacity increase from road construction. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand#Studies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand#Studies
        xiphias2 4y ago
        Mayors of big towns are clearing city centers from cars and making them walkable again anyways (at least in Europe, I don’t know how it is being done in other places). If tunnels are the shortest path to get from one part of the city to another (like in Zurich), cars will use them.
      - Stupulous 4y ago
        A traffic network's purpose is to move people from point A to point B. If you double the lanes and they fill up, you've doubled the throughput. If traffic doesn't move any faster, it's because the old traffic jams were a bigger problem than was visible. You've still alleviated the issue by allowing twice as many people to reach their destination in the same amount of time.
        nequo 4y ago
        There's an argument that assumes that building more lanes does not increase the number of people who travel, only the number of people who choose to do so by car. Then with fewer lanes, the same number of people still get from A to B but on bicycles or using public transport instead of cars. These photos illustrate it well: https://www.streetroots.org/news/2015/04/03/streets-are-everyone-car-or-no-car https://www.streetroots.org/news/2015/04/03/streets-are-ever...
    - mola 4y ago
      Less cars on the road solves traffic jams. Not more roads. Traffic jams are insane, we see a single person sitting alone in a 3+ ton box idling his time and instead of seeing how absurd it is, we want to make bigger roads for more almost empty boxes. Nuts. The solution to traffic jams is excellent public transportation and last mile mobility. Not more roads and definitely not tunnels.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- randoglando 4y ago
  Tunnels don't really solve the problem well - they cost too much for what they do, and don't even do it well. Public transport (specifically expanding trains + e-bikes) is a much better, easier and already available solution.
  - philliphaydon 4y ago
    - RadiozRadioz 4y ago
      I would hazard that the bad drivers kill more people than the bad cyclists you speak of.
      - philliphaydon 4y ago
        Don’t quote me on this but the last time I checked it was roughly… ~600 deaths 35,000 hospitalisation due to car accidents. ~85 deaths 13,000 hospitalisation due to cycling accidents. But in any case when walking in the city I feel safe walking with cars. But I don’t feel safe with cyclists. They rush through red lights. Rush through intersections while people are crossing. I’ve witnessed accidents occur due to cyclists not following the laws. If they followed the laws and slowed down. Stopped and gave way like they are meant to. I wouldn’t have an issue.
    - esclerofilo 4y ago
      > the workers coned off the bike path Why didn't the workers cone off a lane from the street to make space for the bikes? Cars usually have easier alternatives, they can just take another lane. EDIT: But anyway, the real viable alternative to cars is probably not bikes, it's trains and buses.
      - philliphaydon 4y ago
        Because 1) literally no cars. And 2) there’s a bike lane on the other side of the road. The bike lane is bidirectional and the width of a car lane. All the parking in the street was removed for bike lanes. Living in asia I love having MRTs.
- dghlsakjg 4y ago
  The Boring Company takes machines made by other companies, and digs tunnels that anyone with those machines can dig to provide a solution that is largely impractical. Pretty easy to get rid of traffic jams actually, you just get rid of the cars. Never been stuck in traffic in places where there aren't cars.
  - thenewthotness 4y ago
    So throw the baby out with the bath water? Great plan.
    - dghlsakjg 4y ago
      In cities? Yes. You start preferencing more space efficient modes of transport, and traffic jams go away, while transport time decreases. If you’re going to put a tunnel with fixed access points under a city, it makes a lot more sense to run trains than private cars. If you’re going to have a 4 lane road reserve two of the lanes for super high capacity vehicles (busses). Traffic jams are a byproduct of the limits of physics. Once you reach a certain density it is simply impossible to provide enough private car parking and lane capacity.
michaelgrosner2 4y ago
The Boring Company is not a failure. It's actually a major success, for Tesla. It successfully led a generation of politicians and journalists think that there's no need for public transportation, that Elon Musk will solve all our infrastructure needs. It's a modern day GM Streetcar.
- hackernewds 4y ago
  > successfully led a generation of politicians and journalists think that there's no need for public transportation What makes you believe this? And that Musk was responsible for it?
  - Kuinox 4y ago
    It's not far fetched when he brought back the hyperloop in fashion to kill USA high speed rail. https://i.redd.it/n76d16xg94h91.jpg https://i.redd.it/n76d16xg94h91.jpg
    - bradneuberg 4y ago
      California high speed rail (the only real attempt at high speed rail in the US) didn’t need Musk to kill it, it killed itself due to incompetence in building quickly and affordably. This is a shame, because an actually affordable, working high speed rail system in America would be amazing, but won’t happen until we learn how to build again quickly and affordably in America. And who knows how to do that? Elon Musk!
texasbigdata 4y ago
I would wait for the first product to launch before pronouncing a company dead, which should be fairly soon: https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/traffic/officials-aim-to-have-vegas-loop-operational-by-super-bowl-lviii-2659224/ https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/traffic/officials-aim-to...
- tsimionescu 4y ago
  They already launched a "Loop" in Vegas, and it's a small tunnel with manned taxis running in it, operated by the city. And it took longer from project start to inauguration, per mile, than the Channel tunnel linking the UK and France.
  - coffeeblack 4y ago
    That’s false.
    - tsimionescu 4y ago
      The LVCC Loop started boring in 15 November 2020 and opened to the public on 15 April 2021 - so 5 months, for the 2.7km. The Channel tunnel began construction in June of 1988 and opened for freight trains in June of 1994, so 72 months for the 50.4km. So, the LVCC was built at 0.54 km/month, while the Channel tunnel was buildlt at 0.7 km/month. Which part is false?
      - spiderice 4y ago
        Isn’t it expected that a longer tunnel would take less time to build per mile than a shorter one? That just seems obvious. Just like how a 2000 square foot house isn’t going to take twice as long to build as a 1000 square foot house.
        tsimionescu 4y ago
        Not really - especially when that longer tunnel is an international project and is being drilled under the sea, not a straight line in a desert.

by ipqk 4y ago

ComplexSystems 4y ago

I don't think it makes sense to compare a giant, multibillionaire organization like Twitter to something like the Boring Company, which was never really intended to be a main venture.

xiphias2 4y ago

Why would the boring company be a failure? I expect creating tunnels 20 years from now as important as right now. Traffic jams are not going away magically, but automation can bring the cost of creating tunnels down, which can increase the total market significantly. Time is helping the company (just like other projects Elon has started), so there's no rush to scale up and turn profit.

mola 4y ago
How are tunnels solving traffic jams?
- nequo 4y ago
  Not solving but alleviating, by rerouting transiting traffic through bypass routes underground. For example, in Washington DC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9th_and_12th_Street_Expressways https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9th_and_12th_Street_Expressway...
  - esclerofilo 4y ago
    But does rerouting traffic through other bypasses actually alleviate traffic? > Motorways and bypasses generate traffic, that is, produce extra traffic, partly by inducing people to travel who would not otherwise have done so by making the new route more convenient than the old, partly by people who go out of their direct route to enjoy the greater convenience of the new road, and partly by people who use the towns bypassed because they are more convenient for shopping and visits when through traffic has been removed From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand
    - nequo 4y ago
      Do look at the "Studies" section of the same article, too.[1] It is far from established that induced demand outweighs the capacity increase from road construction. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand#Studies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand#Studies
      - xiphias2 4y ago
        Mayors of big towns are clearing city centers from cars and making them walkable again anyways (at least in Europe, I don’t know how it is being done in other places). If tunnels are the shortest path to get from one part of the city to another (like in Zurich), cars will use them.
    - Stupulous 4y ago
      A traffic network's purpose is to move people from point A to point B. If you double the lanes and they fill up, you've doubled the throughput. If traffic doesn't move any faster, it's because the old traffic jams were a bigger problem than was visible. You've still alleviated the issue by allowing twice as many people to reach their destination in the same amount of time.
      - nequo 4y ago
        There's an argument that assumes that building more lanes does not increase the number of people who travel, only the number of people who choose to do so by car. Then with fewer lanes, the same number of people still get from A to B but on bicycles or using public transport instead of cars. These photos illustrate it well: https://www.streetroots.org/news/2015/04/03/streets-are-everyone-car-or-no-car https://www.streetroots.org/news/2015/04/03/streets-are-ever...
  - mola 4y ago
    Less cars on the road solves traffic jams. Not more roads. Traffic jams are insane, we see a single person sitting alone in a 3+ ton box idling his time and instead of seeing how absurd it is, we want to make bigger roads for more almost empty boxes. Nuts. The solution to traffic jams is excellent public transportation and last mile mobility. Not more roads and definitely not tunnels.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
randoglando 4y ago
Tunnels don't really solve the problem well - they cost too much for what they do, and don't even do it well. Public transport (specifically expanding trains + e-bikes) is a much better, easier and already available solution.
- philliphaydon 4y ago
  - RadiozRadioz 4y ago
    I would hazard that the bad drivers kill more people than the bad cyclists you speak of.
    - philliphaydon 4y ago
      Don’t quote me on this but the last time I checked it was roughly… ~600 deaths 35,000 hospitalisation due to car accidents. ~85 deaths 13,000 hospitalisation due to cycling accidents. But in any case when walking in the city I feel safe walking with cars. But I don’t feel safe with cyclists. They rush through red lights. Rush through intersections while people are crossing. I’ve witnessed accidents occur due to cyclists not following the laws. If they followed the laws and slowed down. Stopped and gave way like they are meant to. I wouldn’t have an issue.
  - esclerofilo 4y ago
    > the workers coned off the bike path Why didn't the workers cone off a lane from the street to make space for the bikes? Cars usually have easier alternatives, they can just take another lane. EDIT: But anyway, the real viable alternative to cars is probably not bikes, it's trains and buses.
    - philliphaydon 4y ago
      Because 1) literally no cars. And 2) there’s a bike lane on the other side of the road. The bike lane is bidirectional and the width of a car lane. All the parking in the street was removed for bike lanes. Living in asia I love having MRTs.
dghlsakjg 4y ago
The Boring Company takes machines made by other companies, and digs tunnels that anyone with those machines can dig to provide a solution that is largely impractical. Pretty easy to get rid of traffic jams actually, you just get rid of the cars. Never been stuck in traffic in places where there aren't cars.
- thenewthotness 4y ago
  So throw the baby out with the bath water? Great plan.
  - dghlsakjg 4y ago
    In cities? Yes. You start preferencing more space efficient modes of transport, and traffic jams go away, while transport time decreases. If you’re going to put a tunnel with fixed access points under a city, it makes a lot more sense to run trains than private cars. If you’re going to have a 4 lane road reserve two of the lanes for super high capacity vehicles (busses). Traffic jams are a byproduct of the limits of physics. Once you reach a certain density it is simply impossible to provide enough private car parking and lane capacity.

michaelgrosner2 4y ago

The Boring Company is not a failure. It's actually a major success, for Tesla. It successfully led a generation of politicians and journalists think that there's no need for public transportation, that Elon Musk will solve all our infrastructure needs. It's a modern day GM Streetcar.

hackernewds 4y ago
> successfully led a generation of politicians and journalists think that there's no need for public transportation What makes you believe this? And that Musk was responsible for it?
- Kuinox 4y ago
  It's not far fetched when he brought back the hyperloop in fashion to kill USA high speed rail. https://i.redd.it/n76d16xg94h91.jpg https://i.redd.it/n76d16xg94h91.jpg
  - bradneuberg 4y ago
    California high speed rail (the only real attempt at high speed rail in the US) didn’t need Musk to kill it, it killed itself due to incompetence in building quickly and affordably. This is a shame, because an actually affordable, working high speed rail system in America would be amazing, but won’t happen until we learn how to build again quickly and affordably in America. And who knows how to do that? Elon Musk!

texasbigdata 4y ago

I would wait for the first product to launch before pronouncing a company dead, which should be fairly soon: https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/traffic/officials-aim-to-have-vegas-loop-operational-by-super-bowl-lviii-2659224/ https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/traffic/officials-aim-to...

tsimionescu 4y ago
They already launched a "Loop" in Vegas, and it's a small tunnel with manned taxis running in it, operated by the city. And it took longer from project start to inauguration, per mile, than the Channel tunnel linking the UK and France.
- coffeeblack 4y ago
  That’s false.
  - tsimionescu 4y ago
    The LVCC Loop started boring in 15 November 2020 and opened to the public on 15 April 2021 - so 5 months, for the 2.7km. The Channel tunnel began construction in June of 1988 and opened for freight trains in June of 1994, so 72 months for the 50.4km. So, the LVCC was built at 0.54 km/month, while the Channel tunnel was buildlt at 0.7 km/month. Which part is false?
    - spiderice 4y ago
      Isn’t it expected that a longer tunnel would take less time to build per mile than a shorter one? That just seems obvious. Just like how a 2000 square foot house isn’t going to take twice as long to build as a 1000 square foot house.
      - tsimionescu 4y ago
        Not really - especially when that longer tunnel is an international project and is being drilled under the sea, not a straight line in a desert.