6 ms·

Why Google native client will make game developers and consumers happy [video]

48 points by sathishmanohar 15y ago

willvarfar 15y ago
Couldn't help but notice how often he shakes his head as he's saying something positive, as though he doesn't believe what he's saying...
- nkassis 15y ago
  He's an engineer. He probably was thinking about all the ifs and "but technically this is quite exactly like that" of each one of the statements he was making. I often go to conferences to demo my project and I have the same habit. I try to explain the positive of my project but I know all the dirty secrets ;p
- zobzu 15y ago
  Had to watch because of that :)
- jrockway 15y ago
  He just looks kind of nervous to me.
bretthellman 15y ago
Is this webRTC or something different?
- azakai 15y ago
  This has nothing to do with WebRTC. WebRTC is a work-in-progress effort by multiple vendors (Google, Mozilla and Opera, and possibly others) to create real-time communication capabilities for the web, like voice and video. NaCl is a Google-specific technology for running native code inside Chrome.
- pjscott 15y ago
  I don't usually post rude "let me google that for you" replies, but I feel oddly compelled to point out that there are faster, easier ways to get that sort of information than posting a comment on a forum. For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebRTC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebRTC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Native_Client http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Native_Client
fredoliveira 15y ago
I tried this out for myself with Bastion[1] yesterday (no affiliation) and I was pleasantly surprised at the performance. Native client can have a dramatic impact on the gaming industry (possibly making the chrome web store an interesting competitor to distribution platforms like Steam). Interesting times ahead for sure. [1]: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/oohphhdkahjlioohbalmicpokoefkgid https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/oohphhdkahjlioohba...
- sek 15y ago
  Impressive, everything worked fine (Linux).
teamonkey 15y ago
Native Unity3D support is a huge thing. Right now Unity games run in the browser via a plugin. The plugin installation is a single click, fairly transparent and doesn't require administrator access, but for the average user it's scary. Who trusts a plugin? It's reported as the number 1 turn-off for users.
- azakai 15y ago
  > Right now Unity games run in the browser via a plugin. The plugin installation is a single click, fairly transparent and doesn't require administrator access, but for the average user it's scary. Who trusts a plugin? It's reported as the number 1 turn-off for users. 1. This is still a plugin. NaCl uses the Pepper plugin API. That it is bundled in Chrome doesn't make it not a plugin (Chrome also bundles Flash, and that is still a plugin.) 2. The Unity3D plugin will at least work in multiple browsers, while using NaCl will only work in Chrome. 3. It is true though that, as you say, having a plugin pre-installed as in Chrome is less scary for users. However, it still has all the other problems that plugins have, and as mentioned that it is Chrome-specific.
  - ConstantineXVI 15y ago
    The difference is this one plugin is capable of covering much more ground than Unity3D alone. Once it's there, nothing stopping one from porting, say, id Tech, Unreal, Frostbite, RenderWare, OGRE, Avalanche, Crystal, CryEngine, EGO, Source, etc. to NaCl and running it in the same plugin. Say what you will about Google's strategy, it opens up quite a few possibilites.
    - azakai 15y ago
      > The difference is this one plugin is capable of covering much more ground than Unity3D alone. Once it's there, nothing stopping one from porting, say, id Tech, Unreal, Frostbite, RenderWare, OGRE, Avalanche, Crystal, CryEngine, EGO, Source, etc. to NaCl and running it in the same plugin. That's already possible with the Flash plugin using Alchemy. There are demos of several of those game engines running in it. It is also possible to compile those technologies to JavaScript and run them without plugins at all (using Mandreel or Emscripten), but the experience would be less uniform (results would be different in different browsers), which is probably why it hasn't been done yet.
forgotusername 15y ago
First they came for the gamers, and I said nothing, for I wasn't a gamer, and already that industry was infested with proprietary tech. Then they came for the alternative browsers, and I said nothing, for I was content to see a plug-in extending support for all those games to the rest of the world (even though the alternative vendors all objected verbosely). Then they came for Google Earth, and I said nothing, for it was a perfect fit to the platform, and I could use Earth from any browser (even though I had to install the plug-in to use it in future). Then they came for the video codecs, and I said nothing, for what could be wrong with smoother video working across browsers (even though I had to install the plug-in to get there, and YouTube.com suddenly grew a form of DRM). Then they came for the Internet banks, returning to the 20th century ActiveX-alike requirements for login, and I said nothing (because I needed access to my bank). Then they came for the well-suited open source projects, and I said nothing, for I didn't care about that, and running Audacity from a browser sounded great. Then it ran on Android and Chrome OS, and I was pleased (even though I could no longer write native code for Android that didn't target NaCl). [...] Then they came for me, and there was no-one left to speak out for me or my app, for there was only one platform left that ran on every device.
- ootachi 15y ago
  Note that NaCl has shifted from the NPAPI to the Pepper API, so there actually isn't a plugin that extends support to alternative browsers. You have to use Chrome.
  - pjscott 15y ago
    NaCl is open source, though, so if it gains traction other browsers will start to support it.
    - willvarfar 15y ago
      So far, Mozilla has explicitly stated that they won't adopt it, citing philosophical differences.
      - 15y ago
bookwormAT 15y ago
this is very cool. Do the native client APIs support alternate input devices such as game controllers?
- ootachi 15y ago
  There is a Gamepad API under development by Mozilla: https://wiki.mozilla.org/GamepadAPI https://wiki.mozilla.org/GamepadAPI
  - magicalist 15y ago
    Just FYI, it's been moved to the Web Events working group: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/raw-file/default/gamepad.html http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/raw-file/default/gamepad.htm... there's an open mailing list if anyone wants to participate.
tomjen3 15y ago
Anybody knows if this will also be available for chrome-frame? I have a dream that one day we can ditch Javascript (or at least have a choice as to which language we want to write in). It seems so, well, limited.
moocow01 15y ago
In someways I feel fortunate to not work in gaming. There are so many platforms and languages you've got to hit and probably by the time you've gotten your game's reach maximized the landscape has totally changed. I know Unity is helping to solve this problem but from an outsider's perspective it almost seems like there needs to a really strong standards group like the w3c (maybe there is one for gaming?)
cliffbean 15y ago
It's depressing to me that NaCl people frequently emphasize the "great piles of existing code" out there, and how "the biggest deal is that there are all these existing code bases", and how well they'll run on NaCl. I'd feel better about NaCl if they talked more about why their design might make sense for the web in the long term, rather than just why it's going to be popular in the short term.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]

Couldn't help but notice how often he shakes his head as he's saying something positive, as though he doesn't believe what he's saying...

nkassis 15y ago
He's an engineer. He probably was thinking about all the ifs and "but technically this is quite exactly like that" of each one of the statements he was making. I often go to conferences to demo my project and I have the same habit. I try to explain the positive of my project but I know all the dirty secrets ;p
zobzu 15y ago
Had to watch because of that :)
jrockway 15y ago
He just looks kind of nervous to me.

bretthellman 15y ago

Is this webRTC or something different?

azakai 15y ago
This has nothing to do with WebRTC. WebRTC is a work-in-progress effort by multiple vendors (Google, Mozilla and Opera, and possibly others) to create real-time communication capabilities for the web, like voice and video. NaCl is a Google-specific technology for running native code inside Chrome.
pjscott 15y ago
I don't usually post rude "let me google that for you" replies, but I feel oddly compelled to point out that there are faster, easier ways to get that sort of information than posting a comment on a forum. For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebRTC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebRTC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Native_Client http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Native_Client

fredoliveira 15y ago

I tried this out for myself with Bastion[1] yesterday (no affiliation) and I was pleasantly surprised at the performance. Native client can have a dramatic impact on the gaming industry (possibly making the chrome web store an interesting competitor to distribution platforms like Steam). Interesting times ahead for sure. [1]: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/oohphhdkahjlioohbalmicpokoefkgid https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/oohphhdkahjlioohba...

sek 15y ago
Impressive, everything worked fine (Linux).

teamonkey 15y ago

Native Unity3D support is a huge thing. Right now Unity games run in the browser via a plugin. The plugin installation is a single click, fairly transparent and doesn't require administrator access, but for the average user it's scary. Who trusts a plugin? It's reported as the number 1 turn-off for users.

azakai 15y ago
> Right now Unity games run in the browser via a plugin. The plugin installation is a single click, fairly transparent and doesn't require administrator access, but for the average user it's scary. Who trusts a plugin? It's reported as the number 1 turn-off for users. 1. This is still a plugin. NaCl uses the Pepper plugin API. That it is bundled in Chrome doesn't make it not a plugin (Chrome also bundles Flash, and that is still a plugin.) 2. The Unity3D plugin will at least work in multiple browsers, while using NaCl will only work in Chrome. 3. It is true though that, as you say, having a plugin pre-installed as in Chrome is less scary for users. However, it still has all the other problems that plugins have, and as mentioned that it is Chrome-specific.
- ConstantineXVI 15y ago
  The difference is this one plugin is capable of covering much more ground than Unity3D alone. Once it's there, nothing stopping one from porting, say, id Tech, Unreal, Frostbite, RenderWare, OGRE, Avalanche, Crystal, CryEngine, EGO, Source, etc. to NaCl and running it in the same plugin. Say what you will about Google's strategy, it opens up quite a few possibilites.
  - azakai 15y ago
    > The difference is this one plugin is capable of covering much more ground than Unity3D alone. Once it's there, nothing stopping one from porting, say, id Tech, Unreal, Frostbite, RenderWare, OGRE, Avalanche, Crystal, CryEngine, EGO, Source, etc. to NaCl and running it in the same plugin. That's already possible with the Flash plugin using Alchemy. There are demos of several of those game engines running in it. It is also possible to compile those technologies to JavaScript and run them without plugins at all (using Mandreel or Emscripten), but the experience would be less uniform (results would be different in different browsers), which is probably why it hasn't been done yet.

forgotusername 15y ago

First they came for the gamers, and I said nothing, for I wasn't a gamer, and already that industry was infested with proprietary tech. Then they came for the alternative browsers, and I said nothing, for I was content to see a plug-in extending support for all those games to the rest of the world (even though the alternative vendors all objected verbosely). Then they came for Google Earth, and I said nothing, for it was a perfect fit to the platform, and I could use Earth from any browser (even though I had to install the plug-in to use it in future). Then they came for the video codecs, and I said nothing, for what could be wrong with smoother video working across browsers (even though I had to install the plug-in to get there, and YouTube.com suddenly grew a form of DRM). Then they came for the Internet banks, returning to the 20th century ActiveX-alike requirements for login, and I said nothing (because I needed access to my bank). Then they came for the well-suited open source projects, and I said nothing, for I didn't care about that, and running Audacity from a browser sounded great. Then it ran on Android and Chrome OS, and I was pleased (even though I could no longer write native code for Android that didn't target NaCl). [...] Then they came for me, and there was no-one left to speak out for me or my app, for there was only one platform left that ran on every device.

ootachi 15y ago
Note that NaCl has shifted from the NPAPI to the Pepper API, so there actually isn't a plugin that extends support to alternative browsers. You have to use Chrome.
- pjscott 15y ago
  NaCl is open source, though, so if it gains traction other browsers will start to support it.
  - willvarfar 15y ago
    So far, Mozilla has explicitly stated that they won't adopt it, citing philosophical differences.
    - 15y ago

bookwormAT 15y ago

this is very cool. Do the native client APIs support alternate input devices such as game controllers?

ootachi 15y ago
There is a Gamepad API under development by Mozilla: https://wiki.mozilla.org/GamepadAPI https://wiki.mozilla.org/GamepadAPI
- magicalist 15y ago
  Just FYI, it's been moved to the Web Events working group: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/raw-file/default/gamepad.html http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/raw-file/default/gamepad.htm... there's an open mailing list if anyone wants to participate.

tomjen3 15y ago

Anybody knows if this will also be available for chrome-frame? I have a dream that one day we can ditch Javascript (or at least have a choice as to which language we want to write in). It seems so, well, limited.

moocow01 15y ago

In someways I feel fortunate to not work in gaming. There are so many platforms and languages you've got to hit and probably by the time you've gotten your game's reach maximized the landscape has totally changed. I know Unity is helping to solve this problem but from an outsider's perspective it almost seems like there needs to a really strong standards group like the w3c (maybe there is one for gaming?)

cliffbean 15y ago

It's depressing to me that NaCl people frequently emphasize the "great piles of existing code" out there, and how "the biggest deal is that there are all these existing code bases", and how well they'll run on NaCl. I'd feel better about NaCl if they talked more about why their design might make sense for the web in the long term, rather than just why it's going to be popular in the short term.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]