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> What I really want to see next is an eventually consistent sync system between browser and server We’ve made one: https://electric-sql.com https://electric-s

> What I really want to see next is an eventually consistent sync system between browser and server We’ve made one: https://electric-sql.com https://electric-sql.com Active-active SQLite to Postgres with transactional causal+ consistency based on CRDTs. Disclaimer: founder.

samwillis 4y ago
That is awesome! I’m going to have to play with that. I previously experimented with combining Yjs (CRDT toolkit) with Pouch/CouchDB to create an eventually consistent db, but decided that CouchDB was the wrong backend. It looks like you have built exactly what I wanted to do if I had had time.
- thruflo 4y ago
  Very cool! Would love to swap ideas if you're up for a chat :)
nrser 4y ago
I clicked through to the technical intro, and it says you’re using AntidoteDB for the top-level replication https://electric-sql.com/docs/overview/technical-intro https://electric-sql.com/docs/overview/technical-intro I happen across AntidoteDB just the other day, and my take-away was that it was still under development but not really ready for production use. Curious your opinion / experience with it?
- thruflo 4y ago
  Yup, it’s a very rigorous system developed over ~10 years with solid testing, benchmarking and formal proofs. However it has some known issues, such as behaviour under high load and not currently handling node failure within a DC. It’s not production ready and neither are we (we’re in developer preview mode, which is like a public alpha [0]). There are also other aspects on the Antidote roadmap such as efficiently materialising consistent secondary indexes that are ongoing challenges but aren’t so relevant to how we’re using it as a replication layer. We are working, alongside others, with the Antidote developers to help fix these issues and generally improve reliability / engineer correct behaviour under load. (Professor Annette Bieniusa, who leads the development, is our Chief Architect). We have a fork at electric-sql/vaxine [1]. We are also taking advantage of some simplifications which mitigate the known issues. We have an #antidote channel in the ElectricSQL discord [2] if you’d be interested in chatting more. [0]: https://electric-sql.com/docs/overview/faqs https://electric-sql.com/docs/overview/faqs [1]: https://github.com/electric-sql/vaxine https://github.com/electric-sql/vaxine [2]: https://discord.gg/B7kHGwDcbj https://discord.gg/B7kHGwDcbj
  - techdragon 4y ago
    I’m just going to put the idea here… C# and Blazor, with linq to sql, in the browser… automatically synced to the backend server… that just sounds like magic, but magic I would throw money at.
farmin 4y ago
This looks good. I’m currently exploring Firebase for offline support in Ionic/Angular app, but am much more familiar with SQL. Is capacitor support on the cards?
- thruflo 4y ago
  Hey, yup, definitely. It should be very similar to the Cordova integration. You can also follow the generic driver integration instructions [0]. Basically need to implement an adapter interface and compose the various utilities. Happy to help with this — shout on Discord [1] if you’d be interested in collaborating on it. [0]: https://electric-sql.com/docs/usage/drivers#generic https://electric-sql.com/docs/usage/drivers#generic [1]: https://discord.gg/B7kHGwDcbj https://discord.gg/B7kHGwDcbj
jasfi 4y ago
Very interesting! It looks like an Open Source core + Premium features business model (just guessing here). How heavy is the download? What's the minified client size at the moment?
- thruflo 4y ago
  Yup, open source (https://github.com/electric-sql https://github.com/electric-sql) + managed replication-as-service. Some of our service code (eg: infra, control plane) is proprietary. Download size depends on the driver (we support different SQLite drivers for different environments). The web is quite heavy as it loads the SQL.js WASM (as a separate file, it’s not bundled). I want to say ~350-400kb total but I need to check and it depends a bit on how you build/bundle and serve it. One approach would be to look at the network tab of the browser console when running the web example: https://github.com/electric-sql/examples https://github.com/electric-sql/examples

samwillis 4y ago

That is awesome! I’m going to have to play with that. I previously experimented with combining Yjs (CRDT toolkit) with Pouch/CouchDB to create an eventually consistent db, but decided that CouchDB was the wrong backend. It looks like you have built exactly what I wanted to do if I had had time.

thruflo 4y ago
Very cool! Would love to swap ideas if you're up for a chat :)

nrser 4y ago

I clicked through to the technical intro, and it says you’re using AntidoteDB for the top-level replication https://electric-sql.com/docs/overview/technical-intro https://electric-sql.com/docs/overview/technical-intro I happen across AntidoteDB just the other day, and my take-away was that it was still under development but not really ready for production use. Curious your opinion / experience with it?

thruflo 4y ago
Yup, it’s a very rigorous system developed over ~10 years with solid testing, benchmarking and formal proofs. However it has some known issues, such as behaviour under high load and not currently handling node failure within a DC. It’s not production ready and neither are we (we’re in developer preview mode, which is like a public alpha [0]). There are also other aspects on the Antidote roadmap such as efficiently materialising consistent secondary indexes that are ongoing challenges but aren’t so relevant to how we’re using it as a replication layer. We are working, alongside others, with the Antidote developers to help fix these issues and generally improve reliability / engineer correct behaviour under load. (Professor Annette Bieniusa, who leads the development, is our Chief Architect). We have a fork at electric-sql/vaxine [1]. We are also taking advantage of some simplifications which mitigate the known issues. We have an #antidote channel in the ElectricSQL discord [2] if you’d be interested in chatting more. [0]: https://electric-sql.com/docs/overview/faqs https://electric-sql.com/docs/overview/faqs [1]: https://github.com/electric-sql/vaxine https://github.com/electric-sql/vaxine [2]: https://discord.gg/B7kHGwDcbj https://discord.gg/B7kHGwDcbj
- techdragon 4y ago
  I’m just going to put the idea here… C# and Blazor, with linq to sql, in the browser… automatically synced to the backend server… that just sounds like magic, but magic I would throw money at.

farmin 4y ago

This looks good. I’m currently exploring Firebase for offline support in Ionic/Angular app, but am much more familiar with SQL. Is capacitor support on the cards?

thruflo 4y ago
Hey, yup, definitely. It should be very similar to the Cordova integration. You can also follow the generic driver integration instructions [0]. Basically need to implement an adapter interface and compose the various utilities. Happy to help with this — shout on Discord [1] if you’d be interested in collaborating on it. [0]: https://electric-sql.com/docs/usage/drivers#generic https://electric-sql.com/docs/usage/drivers#generic [1]: https://discord.gg/B7kHGwDcbj https://discord.gg/B7kHGwDcbj

jasfi 4y ago

Very interesting! It looks like an Open Source core + Premium features business model (just guessing here). How heavy is the download? What's the minified client size at the moment?

thruflo 4y ago
Yup, open source (https://github.com/electric-sql https://github.com/electric-sql) + managed replication-as-service. Some of our service code (eg: infra, control plane) is proprietary. Download size depends on the driver (we support different SQLite drivers for different environments). The web is quite heavy as it loads the SQL.js WASM (as a separate file, it’s not bundled). I want to say ~350-400kb total but I need to check and it depends a bit on how you build/bundle and serve it. One approach would be to look at the network tab of the browser console when running the web example: https://github.com/electric-sql/examples https://github.com/electric-sql/examples