5 ms·

Civil discussion requires decorum and rules, and Musk and other conservatives view those as "censorship". It's the same reason none of the reddit clones have e

by cmh89 4y ago

Civil discussion requires decorum and rules, and Musk and other conservatives view those as "censorship". It's the same reason none of the reddit clones have ever taken off, turns out most people don't want to participate in a virtual space free of censorship because it just turns into a cesspool

soderfoo 4y ago
Respectfully, I have not found that to be true. No one side has a monopoly on the lunatics or the level headed. It's unfortunate ad hominems, logical fallacies, and the "mic drop one liner" get so much traction and amplification. When I find myself making snap judgments about an issue, I dive in to the opposition, doggedly seek out the underpinning ideas, from academic or level headed folks. It's helped strengthen my personal convictions on some matters and moderated my pre held notions.
- cmh89 4y ago
  >Respectfully, I have not found that to be true. No one side has a monopoly on the lunatics or the level headed. I really disagree. I think you have fringe folks on the left but outlandish ideas are mainstream amongst conservatives. For example, 70% of republicans believe Joe Biden did not legitimately win the 2020 election. https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2022/70-percent-republicans-falsely-believe-stolen-election-trump/ https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2022/70-percent-republ... You just aren't going to find such strong belief in anything that absurd on the left. >When I find myself making snap judgments about an issue, I dive in to the opposition, doggedly seek out the underpinning ideas, from academic or level headed folks. I agree! Obviously some subjects like anti-vaxxers or election deniers don't have level-headed or academic folks who can support them. That's really why you need intense moderation because quality content doesn't rise to the top. An 'anything goes' environment tends to promote the absolute worst ideas, as people like Gwyneth Paltrow and Joe Rogan have a far wider audience that actual scientists. If you allow them to lie about important issues, the lie is going to suffocate any academic or level-headed person who has something to say.
  - Akronymus 4y ago
    > You just aren't going to find such strong belief in anything that absurd on the left. The 4 years of russian meddling? It genuinly seems to have been widespread to me. And with the biden one, AFAICT it is not directly about stealing it, but rather enacting stuff that resulted in an unfair benefit to democrats, that seemed unlawful. (Mail in voting by default, for example) So, no, I don't believe it's mostly one side. But rather that both sides have the loud, crazy, minority.
    - cmh89 4y ago
      >The 4 years of russian meddling? It genuinly seems to have been widespread to me. You mean the highly documented russian interference in our elections? Is that what you're talking about? >And with the biden one, AFAICT it is not directly about stealing it, but rather enacting stuff that resulted in an unfair benefit to democrats, that seemed unlawful. (Mail in voting by default, for example) I'm not going to delve too deep into the idiotic conspiracy theories behind the 'stop the steal', the reality is that there is zero evidence impropriety. The idea that making it easier to vote by mail is a benefit to one party speaks volumes about what conservatives believe. The fight against vote-by-mail has nothing to do with lawfullness. Conservatives focus on making it hard to vote/voter disenfranchisement because they know they are a minority party.
ohmyzee 4y ago
I'm pretty sure most of those Reddit clones get flooded with "undesirable" bots as a way of killing them off. The people who currently run bots on Reddit, have massive power over public opinion etc, they want to keep their victims centralised, and on familiar territory.
- cmh89 4y ago
  Or, the majority of people are fine with limiting hatefullness and so you end up with just the people who want to spread hate online, which in turn makes it a cesspool
origin_path 4y ago
None of the censorship people complain about on Twitter is to do with enforcing politeness or decorum, it's all censorship of specific information or opinions regardless of how politely phrased. And that lack of fixed rules is part of the problem. Trying to paint this as "conservatives hate politeness" is just dishonesty.
- cmh89 4y ago
  Can you give an example of what you're talking about? There are plenty of TERF and transphobic accounts on Twitter right now. You can express transphobic ideas on Twitter.
  - origin_path 4y ago
    Anything related to COVID or vaccines for example.
    - cmh89 4y ago
      Yeah, they banned folks from lying about vaccines and the COVID-19 pandemic. You can be pro-covid or talk about how you don't want to get the vaccine. You just aren't allowed to spread conspiracy theories and lies. It doesn't sound too complicated to me

by cmh89 4y ago

soderfoo 4y ago

Respectfully, I have not found that to be true. No one side has a monopoly on the lunatics or the level headed. It's unfortunate ad hominems, logical fallacies, and the "mic drop one liner" get so much traction and amplification. When I find myself making snap judgments about an issue, I dive in to the opposition, doggedly seek out the underpinning ideas, from academic or level headed folks. It's helped strengthen my personal convictions on some matters and moderated my pre held notions.

cmh89 4y ago
>Respectfully, I have not found that to be true. No one side has a monopoly on the lunatics or the level headed. I really disagree. I think you have fringe folks on the left but outlandish ideas are mainstream amongst conservatives. For example, 70% of republicans believe Joe Biden did not legitimately win the 2020 election. https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2022/70-percent-republicans-falsely-believe-stolen-election-trump/ https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2022/70-percent-republ... You just aren't going to find such strong belief in anything that absurd on the left. >When I find myself making snap judgments about an issue, I dive in to the opposition, doggedly seek out the underpinning ideas, from academic or level headed folks. I agree! Obviously some subjects like anti-vaxxers or election deniers don't have level-headed or academic folks who can support them. That's really why you need intense moderation because quality content doesn't rise to the top. An 'anything goes' environment tends to promote the absolute worst ideas, as people like Gwyneth Paltrow and Joe Rogan have a far wider audience that actual scientists. If you allow them to lie about important issues, the lie is going to suffocate any academic or level-headed person who has something to say.
- Akronymus 4y ago
  > You just aren't going to find such strong belief in anything that absurd on the left. The 4 years of russian meddling? It genuinly seems to have been widespread to me. And with the biden one, AFAICT it is not directly about stealing it, but rather enacting stuff that resulted in an unfair benefit to democrats, that seemed unlawful. (Mail in voting by default, for example) So, no, I don't believe it's mostly one side. But rather that both sides have the loud, crazy, minority.
  - cmh89 4y ago
    >The 4 years of russian meddling? It genuinly seems to have been widespread to me. You mean the highly documented russian interference in our elections? Is that what you're talking about? >And with the biden one, AFAICT it is not directly about stealing it, but rather enacting stuff that resulted in an unfair benefit to democrats, that seemed unlawful. (Mail in voting by default, for example) I'm not going to delve too deep into the idiotic conspiracy theories behind the 'stop the steal', the reality is that there is zero evidence impropriety. The idea that making it easier to vote by mail is a benefit to one party speaks volumes about what conservatives believe. The fight against vote-by-mail has nothing to do with lawfullness. Conservatives focus on making it hard to vote/voter disenfranchisement because they know they are a minority party.

ohmyzee 4y ago

I'm pretty sure most of those Reddit clones get flooded with "undesirable" bots as a way of killing them off. The people who currently run bots on Reddit, have massive power over public opinion etc, they want to keep their victims centralised, and on familiar territory.

cmh89 4y ago
Or, the majority of people are fine with limiting hatefullness and so you end up with just the people who want to spread hate online, which in turn makes it a cesspool

origin_path 4y ago

None of the censorship people complain about on Twitter is to do with enforcing politeness or decorum, it's all censorship of specific information or opinions regardless of how politely phrased. And that lack of fixed rules is part of the problem. Trying to paint this as "conservatives hate politeness" is just dishonesty.

cmh89 4y ago
Can you give an example of what you're talking about? There are plenty of TERF and transphobic accounts on Twitter right now. You can express transphobic ideas on Twitter.
- origin_path 4y ago
  Anything related to COVID or vaccines for example.
  - cmh89 4y ago
    Yeah, they banned folks from lying about vaccines and the COVID-19 pandemic. You can be pro-covid or talk about how you don't want to get the vaccine. You just aren't allowed to spread conspiracy theories and lies. It doesn't sound too complicated to me