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I really dont understand why his Ukraine tweets were controversial. He clearly has done in support of Ukraine with providing Starlink etc. He doesnt have contr

I really dont understand why his Ukraine tweets were controversial. He clearly has done in support of Ukraine with providing Starlink etc. He doesnt have control of arms shipments or policy decisions that the Western powers are making (sanctions, etc). Yet another example of how polarized the US (maybe the West) is, where if you say *any* that questions our unilateral support of Ukraine (even if that has to do with increased chances of nuclear war) you're an asshole. I'm sorry, but this situation has a lot of nuance - quit acting like it doesnt. You can cautiously support Ukraine but also realize that the US has little to gain as each day goes by with Russia getting smoked by Western weapons and training.

koonsolo 4y ago
> He clearly has done in support of Ukraine with providing Starlink etc. Do you know that Ukrainians are buying and paying subscriptions for that. I'm sure the return on investment is very well calculated. Ok, so we give up a part of Ukraine to avoid nuclear war. Works very good for Russia. In a few years Russia takes the rest of Ukraine. Are you going to risk nuclear war then? No? Great! Then Russia invades the Baltic states. Want to risk nuclear war now? Of course not. Then they take the rest of central Europe that was under their control. Is East-Germany worth the risk of nuclear war in your opinion, or not?
- misiti3780 4y ago
  > Do you know that Ukrainians are buying and paying subscriptions for that. I'm sure the return on investment is very well calculated. I'm sorry, did the Starlink units not help ? > Is East-Germany worth the risk of nuclear war in your opinion, or not? Last time I checked, Germany was a member of NATO.
  - koonsolo 4y ago
    > I'm sorry, did the Starlink units not help ? Of course, any business is a win-win for both parties. But don't act as if it's from of the kindness of the heart. > Last time I checked, Germany was a member of NATO. Funny, because last time I checked, the Baltic states are too. But I guess NATO could give those up to avoid nuclear war. You didn't respond to them being taken over by Russia, did you?
    - misiti3780 4y ago
      I guess I meant "Last time I checked, they are all members of NATO"
      - koonsolo 4y ago
        A conflict with NATO has a higher chance of turning nuclear than a conflict with Ukraine. So maybe we should exclude the Baltic states and give them to Russia? To avoid a nuclear war?
        misiti3780 4y ago
        I dont understand your point. Who is talkinga bout giving the Baltic states to Russia? Not me.
        koonsolo 4y ago
        You are defending Elon, who said to give Crimea to Russia to "prevent nulcear war". I'm just wondering how much stuff you want to give to Russia to "prevent nuclear war". So give Crimea to Russia, yes. Donbas too? Baltic states you said no. Can they take the rest of Ukraine to prevent nuclear war? For me, the line is pretty easy: Russia respects the borders as internationally defined. And I don't really give a shit how much they threaten with nuclear war. For you and Elon, you seem to want to give Russia some stuff and hope it ends there. Well, it never ends there, so that's why I ask where you will draw the line.
david422 4y ago
> I really dont understand why his Ukraine tweets were controversial Because peace at this point means the aggressor keeps territories. If Canada moved troops into a bunch of US states - NY, NH, Maine, Pennsylvania etc. would you be willing to just cede that territory over so that everybody can have "peace"? Ok, let's have peace, I guess Canada gets New England now.
- misiti3780 4y ago
  Ya I get it, and that is one option, of many, for resolving this conflict. How do you think this ends if the Western powers keep funding the war and Ukraine takes Crimea? Do you think Putin will just say "OK" ? Comparing Russia to Canada is in bad faith. Canada is a democracy, not run by a dictator.
  - koonsolo 4y ago
    > Do you think Putin will just say "OK" ? I think NATO or the West is playing a very strategic game here. They don't offer Ukraine 100% more firepower than Russia, which would end the war quickly. They offer them a bit more so that Russia is struggling. And notice that when Russia would try to subdue Ukraine with more powerful weapons like a tactical nuke, NATO already made it clear that they would move in. They are basically exhausting Russia to death. Right now, Russia is really scraping to throw everything they got into this war. If this war keeps going, it will totally destruct Russia's economy and society. Unfortunately, Ukraine is paying a very heavy price for this. But from a NATO strategic standpoint, we're now in an ideal scenario.
    - misiti3780 4y ago
      i hope you're right.
  - david422 4y ago
    > How do you think this ends if the Western powers keep funding the war and Ukraine takes Crimea? Do you think Putin will just say "OK" ? You mean if Ukraine returns to their sovereign borders and has a crap ton of weapons and can physically repel any Russian attacks? Doesn't matter what Putin says. > Comparing Russia to Canada is in bad faith. What? Ok, how about just pretend Russia takes over the Alaska and the western seaboard. Does that work for you?

koonsolo 4y ago

> He clearly has done in support of Ukraine with providing Starlink etc. Do you know that Ukrainians are buying and paying subscriptions for that. I'm sure the return on investment is very well calculated. Ok, so we give up a part of Ukraine to avoid nuclear war. Works very good for Russia. In a few years Russia takes the rest of Ukraine. Are you going to risk nuclear war then? No? Great! Then Russia invades the Baltic states. Want to risk nuclear war now? Of course not. Then they take the rest of central Europe that was under their control. Is East-Germany worth the risk of nuclear war in your opinion, or not?

misiti3780 4y ago
> Do you know that Ukrainians are buying and paying subscriptions for that. I'm sure the return on investment is very well calculated. I'm sorry, did the Starlink units not help ? > Is East-Germany worth the risk of nuclear war in your opinion, or not? Last time I checked, Germany was a member of NATO.
- koonsolo 4y ago
  > I'm sorry, did the Starlink units not help ? Of course, any business is a win-win for both parties. But don't act as if it's from of the kindness of the heart. > Last time I checked, Germany was a member of NATO. Funny, because last time I checked, the Baltic states are too. But I guess NATO could give those up to avoid nuclear war. You didn't respond to them being taken over by Russia, did you?
  - misiti3780 4y ago
    I guess I meant "Last time I checked, they are all members of NATO"
    - koonsolo 4y ago
      A conflict with NATO has a higher chance of turning nuclear than a conflict with Ukraine. So maybe we should exclude the Baltic states and give them to Russia? To avoid a nuclear war?
      - misiti3780 4y ago
        I dont understand your point. Who is talkinga bout giving the Baltic states to Russia? Not me.
        koonsolo 4y ago
        You are defending Elon, who said to give Crimea to Russia to "prevent nulcear war". I'm just wondering how much stuff you want to give to Russia to "prevent nuclear war". So give Crimea to Russia, yes. Donbas too? Baltic states you said no. Can they take the rest of Ukraine to prevent nuclear war? For me, the line is pretty easy: Russia respects the borders as internationally defined. And I don't really give a shit how much they threaten with nuclear war. For you and Elon, you seem to want to give Russia some stuff and hope it ends there. Well, it never ends there, so that's why I ask where you will draw the line.

david422 4y ago

> I really dont understand why his Ukraine tweets were controversial Because peace at this point means the aggressor keeps territories. If Canada moved troops into a bunch of US states - NY, NH, Maine, Pennsylvania etc. would you be willing to just cede that territory over so that everybody can have "peace"? Ok, let's have peace, I guess Canada gets New England now.

misiti3780 4y ago
Ya I get it, and that is one option, of many, for resolving this conflict. How do you think this ends if the Western powers keep funding the war and Ukraine takes Crimea? Do you think Putin will just say "OK" ? Comparing Russia to Canada is in bad faith. Canada is a democracy, not run by a dictator.
- koonsolo 4y ago
  > Do you think Putin will just say "OK" ? I think NATO or the West is playing a very strategic game here. They don't offer Ukraine 100% more firepower than Russia, which would end the war quickly. They offer them a bit more so that Russia is struggling. And notice that when Russia would try to subdue Ukraine with more powerful weapons like a tactical nuke, NATO already made it clear that they would move in. They are basically exhausting Russia to death. Right now, Russia is really scraping to throw everything they got into this war. If this war keeps going, it will totally destruct Russia's economy and society. Unfortunately, Ukraine is paying a very heavy price for this. But from a NATO strategic standpoint, we're now in an ideal scenario.
  - misiti3780 4y ago
    i hope you're right.
- david422 4y ago
  > How do you think this ends if the Western powers keep funding the war and Ukraine takes Crimea? Do you think Putin will just say "OK" ? You mean if Ukraine returns to their sovereign borders and has a crap ton of weapons and can physically repel any Russian attacks? Doesn't matter what Putin says. > Comparing Russia to Canada is in bad faith. What? Ok, how about just pretend Russia takes over the Alaska and the western seaboard. Does that work for you?