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> No one has legal power to change their terms of service governing my data, or issue secret warrants, or extralegal power to outright take my digital property.

by such12 4y ago

> No one has legal power to change their terms of service governing my data, or issue secret warrants, or extralegal power to outright take my digital property. I don’t see how this is even close to true. Governments seize property all the time.

lrvick 4y ago
Sure, but if the data lives on my property then they need to get a judge to sign off on probable cause and show me the warrant. Then at least I am aware of what is happening and can challenge it in court, or go public, if it is unjustified. When the data lives with Apple or Google, they can just secretly take it, even in bulk. The NSA wire taps on Google and others were a real thing that actually happened. No pesky constitutional protections in the way for the data you freely give to corporations.
- such12 4y ago
  > Sure, but if the data lives on my property then they need to get a judge to sign off on probable cause and show me the warrant. Then at least I am aware of what is happening and can challenge it in court, or go public, if it is unjustified. In principle, but not in practice. All they need is a witness for probably cause, and once they have your stuff, you aren’t going to get it back without a bankrupting fight, if at all. If you think the government plays fair in the real world, you might want to have a discussion with a Mr Assange, currently a guest of King Charles III. > When the data lives with Apple or Google, they can just secretly take it, even in bulk. The NSA wire taps on Google and others were a real thing that actually happened. The NSA wire taps were ruled illegal. How satisfying.
  - lrvick 4y ago
    They may be able to confiscate my stuff, but I will at least make them put in the work to target me individually and make them find that judge and that witness and that warrant. Doing that for -everyone- is infeasible and expensive which was the exact point of the constitution. It is designed to clip the wings of hopeful authoritarian elements of our government. Also, because I control my technology, and my encryption keys, the constitution gives me one other major protection. The right to not self-incriminate, or, the right to not give them additional rope to hang me with. No one knows my decryption passwords but me, and no one can compel me to reveal them legally. It is exactly because the government does not always play fair, as you point out, that every citizen owes it to themselves and each other to limit their power. Meanwhile you give up all rights and control of your data when you agree to the terms of service of Apple or Google. They will hand over your plain text data without your knowledge or consent if you merely say the wrong trigger phrase.

by such12 4y ago

lrvick 4y ago

Sure, but if the data lives on my property then they need to get a judge to sign off on probable cause and show me the warrant. Then at least I am aware of what is happening and can challenge it in court, or go public, if it is unjustified. When the data lives with Apple or Google, they can just secretly take it, even in bulk. The NSA wire taps on Google and others were a real thing that actually happened. No pesky constitutional protections in the way for the data you freely give to corporations.

such12 4y ago
> Sure, but if the data lives on my property then they need to get a judge to sign off on probable cause and show me the warrant. Then at least I am aware of what is happening and can challenge it in court, or go public, if it is unjustified. In principle, but not in practice. All they need is a witness for probably cause, and once they have your stuff, you aren’t going to get it back without a bankrupting fight, if at all. If you think the government plays fair in the real world, you might want to have a discussion with a Mr Assange, currently a guest of King Charles III. > When the data lives with Apple or Google, they can just secretly take it, even in bulk. The NSA wire taps on Google and others were a real thing that actually happened. The NSA wire taps were ruled illegal. How satisfying.
- lrvick 4y ago
  They may be able to confiscate my stuff, but I will at least make them put in the work to target me individually and make them find that judge and that witness and that warrant. Doing that for -everyone- is infeasible and expensive which was the exact point of the constitution. It is designed to clip the wings of hopeful authoritarian elements of our government. Also, because I control my technology, and my encryption keys, the constitution gives me one other major protection. The right to not self-incriminate, or, the right to not give them additional rope to hang me with. No one knows my decryption passwords but me, and no one can compel me to reveal them legally. It is exactly because the government does not always play fair, as you point out, that every citizen owes it to themselves and each other to limit their power. Meanwhile you give up all rights and control of your data when you agree to the terms of service of Apple or Google. They will hand over your plain text data without your knowledge or consent if you merely say the wrong trigger phrase.