4 ms·

As long as you don't say "Men can't get pregnant!!"

daVe23hu 4y ago
[flagged]
skyyler 4y ago
Does simply saying "men can't get pregnant" count as some kind of structural violence towards men that have been pregnant? More or less so than telling a disabled person that their disability is made-up? More or less so than calling someone a racial slur? Can we make this start an insightful conversation about the limits of free speech? Imagine being in the position where your platform is being used to harass a particular group of people... Wouldn't you want to help those being harassed?
- vfclists 4y ago
  "Men" can't get pregnant simply because they can't, by definition. The roots of the word "man" are biological, and take precedence over the "person", ie the self-image, because it is the physical form and function that the accepted meaning of the word is rooted in. The meaning of word is as it is between the people having the dialogue and for the majority of the world today outside the insane circles of the demented West the word "man" whose plural is "men" refers to an adult biologically male human being, ie one born with a penis and scrotum between their legs. E.g. the word "pants" in the US means trousers whereas in the UK it means underwear, just as "knickers" in the UK means women's underwear, whereas in most of the English speaking world it means "shorts", what is essentially a pair of trousers "shortened" to a point above the knees. How does pointing out to an intelligent mature adult the meaning of a word is as it is accepted by the parties having the dialogue amount to harrassment? And why do some "men" and their sympathizers insist on interposing/intruding/imposing their meanings of words in the conversations between parties where those words mean different things, not just between those parties but in the societies they belong to? I would consider intruding on conversations between others to be presumptious, overbearing and pretty ill-mannered, not just in deed but also in thought. The word "man" in the English language and all languages around the world refers to an object, a physical object, though be it one capable of moving around on its own volition, namely an adult human male, one born with a penis and scrotum, or designated as a male at birth in the uncommon case of being born with inadequately formed male genitals and maintaining that designation into adulthood. It does not refer to the feelings or self-image of persons designated "transexual males", nor does it entitle such transexuals and those who sympathize with their feelings to impose new meanings to words in the societies in which they live, or claim harrassment, oppression and persecution if the new meanings they seek for those words are not accepted by their societies. And please don't bring up the point of "vulnerability". Being unable to accept that the meanings of words is as they are understood by the parties in the discussion is a sign of emotional immaturity, if not outright self-indulgence and an insane sense of entitlement.
  - FrontierPsych 4y ago
    The word with the most meanings in the English language is "run" with over 645 definitions. Plus, people make up new words. That dirty rat Shakespeare made up the most words up out of whole cloth at about 1,700. Whole cloth. Cool means hot, and cool means cold. Cleave means separate, and cleave means join together. Man can mean woman and woman mean man. Dog means cat and cat means dog, top means bottom and bottom means top. When I hire someone, I tell them that they will get paid $125,000 per year, but then I pay them $14,000 per year, because to me, $125,000 means $14,000. Get with the program, people. Words can mean anything and change at any time. Go ahead, make up your own, right now. You should see all the brand new personal gender pronouns, now that's a real kick in the head.
  - skyyler 4y ago
    > designated as a male at birth in the uncommon case of being born with inadequately formed male genitals and maintaining that designation into adulthood. I find it interesting that you spend most of your message talking about the biological precedent of calling someone with a penis and a scrotum "man", yet even within your ideological construction you have to allow for some wiggle room. > It does not refer to the feelings or self-image of persons designated "transexual males" Says who? My FtM friends are "men" just like my friends with a penis that consider themselves men. >if the new meanings they seek for those words are not accepted by their societies. Trans stuff isn't particularly new. Being taken seriously is what's new for us. Apologies if that's a little uncomfortable for you as a cis person, that must be very very very difficult to deal with. > Being unable to accept that the meanings of words is as they are understood by the parties in the discussion is a sign of emotional immaturity If you'd like further reading on how sex and gender work, I suggest Gender Trouble by Judith Butler.

[flagged]

Does simply saying "men can't get pregnant" count as some kind of structural violence towards men that have been pregnant? More or less so than telling a disabled person that their disability is made-up? More or less so than calling someone a racial slur? Can we make this start an insightful conversation about the limits of free speech? Imagine being in the position where your platform is being used to harass a particular group of people... Wouldn't you want to help those being harassed?

vfclists 4y ago
"Men" can't get pregnant simply because they can't, by definition. The roots of the word "man" are biological, and take precedence over the "person", ie the self-image, because it is the physical form and function that the accepted meaning of the word is rooted in. The meaning of word is as it is between the people having the dialogue and for the majority of the world today outside the insane circles of the demented West the word "man" whose plural is "men" refers to an adult biologically male human being, ie one born with a penis and scrotum between their legs. E.g. the word "pants" in the US means trousers whereas in the UK it means underwear, just as "knickers" in the UK means women's underwear, whereas in most of the English speaking world it means "shorts", what is essentially a pair of trousers "shortened" to a point above the knees. How does pointing out to an intelligent mature adult the meaning of a word is as it is accepted by the parties having the dialogue amount to harrassment? And why do some "men" and their sympathizers insist on interposing/intruding/imposing their meanings of words in the conversations between parties where those words mean different things, not just between those parties but in the societies they belong to? I would consider intruding on conversations between others to be presumptious, overbearing and pretty ill-mannered, not just in deed but also in thought. The word "man" in the English language and all languages around the world refers to an object, a physical object, though be it one capable of moving around on its own volition, namely an adult human male, one born with a penis and scrotum, or designated as a male at birth in the uncommon case of being born with inadequately formed male genitals and maintaining that designation into adulthood. It does not refer to the feelings or self-image of persons designated "transexual males", nor does it entitle such transexuals and those who sympathize with their feelings to impose new meanings to words in the societies in which they live, or claim harrassment, oppression and persecution if the new meanings they seek for those words are not accepted by their societies. And please don't bring up the point of "vulnerability". Being unable to accept that the meanings of words is as they are understood by the parties in the discussion is a sign of emotional immaturity, if not outright self-indulgence and an insane sense of entitlement.
- FrontierPsych 4y ago
  The word with the most meanings in the English language is "run" with over 645 definitions. Plus, people make up new words. That dirty rat Shakespeare made up the most words up out of whole cloth at about 1,700. Whole cloth. Cool means hot, and cool means cold. Cleave means separate, and cleave means join together. Man can mean woman and woman mean man. Dog means cat and cat means dog, top means bottom and bottom means top. When I hire someone, I tell them that they will get paid $125,000 per year, but then I pay them $14,000 per year, because to me, $125,000 means $14,000. Get with the program, people. Words can mean anything and change at any time. Go ahead, make up your own, right now. You should see all the brand new personal gender pronouns, now that's a real kick in the head.
- skyyler 4y ago
  > designated as a male at birth in the uncommon case of being born with inadequately formed male genitals and maintaining that designation into adulthood. I find it interesting that you spend most of your message talking about the biological precedent of calling someone with a penis and a scrotum "man", yet even within your ideological construction you have to allow for some wiggle room. > It does not refer to the feelings or self-image of persons designated "transexual males" Says who? My FtM friends are "men" just like my friends with a penis that consider themselves men. >if the new meanings they seek for those words are not accepted by their societies. Trans stuff isn't particularly new. Being taken seriously is what's new for us. Apologies if that's a little uncomfortable for you as a cis person, that must be very very very difficult to deal with. > Being unable to accept that the meanings of words is as they are understood by the parties in the discussion is a sign of emotional immaturity If you'd like further reading on how sex and gender work, I suggest Gender Trouble by Judith Butler.