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Libel isn't legal in the US. > In since-deleted tweets, the account specifically accused Chasten Buttigieg and The Trevor Project organization of grooming.[40]

Libel isn't legal in the US. > In since-deleted tweets, the account specifically accused Chasten Buttigieg and The Trevor Project organization of grooming.[40][32][94] And outright misinformation isn't really an "ideological difference." > The account has been criticized for spreading hoaxes, including the litter boxes in schools hoax about bathrooms accommodations for students that identified as cats, and a false claim that students in a second-grade class in Austin, Texas were being taught about furries.[12][95][94] Outright lies are destructive to "public square"-style communication, and Twitter definitely can't be seen, legally, facilitating libel.

PathOfEclipse 4y ago
> > In since-deleted tweets, the account specifically accused Chasten Buttigieg and The Trevor Project organization of grooming.[40][32][94] Leftists accuse conservatives of far worse things than that without ever getting censored. Leftists can event threaten other peoples' lives without getting censored: https://www.dailywire.com/news/7-twitter-accounts-that-have-promoted-violence-but-havent-been-banned https://www.dailywire.com/news/7-twitter-accounts-that-have-... Is it worse to be called a groomer or a Nazi? I guess, if you're twitter, it's worse to call a leftist a groomer than it is to call a conservative a Nazi. @NYCAntifa clearly gets away with the latter! > The account has been criticized for spreading hoaxes, including the litter boxes in schools hoax about bathrooms accommodations for students that identified as cats, and a false claim that students in a second-grade class in Austin, Texas were being taught about furries.[12][95][94] Libs of tik tok spread the misinformation, but they didn't create it. They cited someone else. If you don't think it's ok to cite someone else, later find out they lied, and then retract your statement, well, you probably have two standards, one for yourself and one for people you disagree with. > Outright lies are destructive to "public square"-style communication, and Twitter definitely can't be seen, legally, facilitating libel. It's amazing how many lies come from the left and never see any twitter censorship: https://www.dailywire.com/news/numerous-leftists-on-twitter-shared-the-obviously-sketchy-story-about-oklahoma-hospitals-being-overrun-with-ivermectin-overdoses https://www.dailywire.com/news/numerous-leftists-on-twitter-...
- slg 4y ago
  >Is it worse to be called a groomer or a Nazi? I guess, if you're twitter, it's worse to call a leftist a groomer than it is to call a conservative a Nazi. "Groomer" is a noun that describes someone's actions. "Nazi" is a noun that describes someone's political beliefs. It is absolutely worse to be called a "groomer" because that is a direct claim of immoral and often illegal behavior. "You are doing something bad" is a more serious accusation than "you believe something bad".
  - PathOfEclipse 4y ago
    If your belief system allows you to support genocide, does that make you better than someone who is doing something bad now that doesn't support genocide? No, I don't think your moral compass is any less subjective than mine, here. People act on and are motivated by their beliefs, and, if you're a Nazi, you're going to do things that move the world in a particular direction. And, here is an article talking about how the Trevor project "does" groom people: https://personandidentity.com/mother-of-trans-child-poses-as-teen-to-find-out-how-trevor-project-grooms-kids-into-transitioning/ https://personandidentity.com/mother-of-trans-child-poses-as... And another on the same story: https://pitt.substack.com/p/the-trevor-project-undercover-mom https://pitt.substack.com/p/the-trevor-project-undercover-mo... Are those going to get censored if I post them on twitter?
    - slg 4y ago
      >If your belief system allows you to support genocide, does that make you better than someone who is doing something bad now that doesn't support genocide? Many people who use the term "groomers" as loosely as LibsOfTikTok already think of this "grooming" as equivalent to a genocide. That is my point. "Groomers" implies that the bad is already happening while "Nazi" implies the bad is a belief with undefined actions. It is the difference between being call a murderer and a psychopath. One says you already did something bad. The other says you might be capable of something bad.
      - jl6 4y ago
systemvoltage 4y ago
This is not an accurate representation of what LibsofTiktok is and what content they post. There are specifics about what false claims. All they do is repost TikTok’s insanity. In some ways, LibsofTiktok has done world a whole lot of good, by exposing and immunizing against extreme left ideologies that even the most devout progressives reject. We need more of this that exposed extremes of either ideology. Because clearly the media has totally failed to do this.
redeeman 4y ago
libsoftiktok literally just puts an eye on content other people choose to make public to begin with
- smcl 4y ago
  That’s laughably false - take a peek at some of their tweets, shedloads of transphobic hate sprinkled with a bit of targeted harassment: https://github.com/salcoast/deleted-tweets-archive/blob/main/datasets/libsoftiktok-deleted.md https://github.com/salcoast/deleted-tweets-archive/blob/main...
  - redeeman 4y ago
    Well okay, a paraphrase-transcription aswell. I do agree that the content that particular user finds and shows to me is very disturbing, especially given that it is often teachers taking care of very impressionable people(children) in a position of authority.
    - smcl 4y ago
      Are we looking at the same page? The majority of these are just a person frothing mad about a grand conspiracy of teachers who will stop at nothing until they have "trans"-ed all kids. They're completely unhinged
      - redeeman 4y ago
        is that why the teachers are crying due to the actual parents getting a glimpse into the school?
        smcl 4y ago
        I can't make head nor tail of what you're saying. Can you try again, please?
scythe 4y ago
>Libel isn't legal in the US. In order for something to be libel, you have to know it is false and intend for people to believe it is true. The litter box story for example was spread by a trolling organization with the intention of fooling people like LoTT and Tucker. It's not libel because they fell for it — it's stupid, but it's not libel. Likewise, the criticism of the The Trevor Project likely reflects a sincerely held belief that the known activities of TTP constitute "grooming", and not a measurable claim that TTP staff are actively engaging in activities conventionally understood as pedophilia. Also not libel.
- joshuamorton 4y ago
  This is not true. Defamation (libel and slander) in the US is distinct depending on how well known the victim is. For a famous victim, yes you must essentially know the statement was false. But if the victim is not a public individual, you need only act with negligence (e.g. violate the reasonable person standard). The litter box story, for example, doesn't involve famous people, it's like random local school districts, and no reasonable person would believe it to be true. The Trevor project likely does constitute a public organization, so the standard is higher, but only requires actual malice, which means "reckless disregard" for the truth of the statements. It's probably not met, because it is a high standard, but it doesn't actually require that they know themselves to be lying.

PathOfEclipse 4y ago

> > In since-deleted tweets, the account specifically accused Chasten Buttigieg and The Trevor Project organization of grooming.[40][32][94] Leftists accuse conservatives of far worse things than that without ever getting censored. Leftists can event threaten other peoples' lives without getting censored: https://www.dailywire.com/news/7-twitter-accounts-that-have-promoted-violence-but-havent-been-banned https://www.dailywire.com/news/7-twitter-accounts-that-have-... Is it worse to be called a groomer or a Nazi? I guess, if you're twitter, it's worse to call a leftist a groomer than it is to call a conservative a Nazi. @NYCAntifa clearly gets away with the latter! > The account has been criticized for spreading hoaxes, including the litter boxes in schools hoax about bathrooms accommodations for students that identified as cats, and a false claim that students in a second-grade class in Austin, Texas were being taught about furries.[12][95][94] Libs of tik tok spread the misinformation, but they didn't create it. They cited someone else. If you don't think it's ok to cite someone else, later find out they lied, and then retract your statement, well, you probably have two standards, one for yourself and one for people you disagree with. > Outright lies are destructive to "public square"-style communication, and Twitter definitely can't be seen, legally, facilitating libel. It's amazing how many lies come from the left and never see any twitter censorship: https://www.dailywire.com/news/numerous-leftists-on-twitter-shared-the-obviously-sketchy-story-about-oklahoma-hospitals-being-overrun-with-ivermectin-overdoses https://www.dailywire.com/news/numerous-leftists-on-twitter-...

slg 4y ago
>Is it worse to be called a groomer or a Nazi? I guess, if you're twitter, it's worse to call a leftist a groomer than it is to call a conservative a Nazi. "Groomer" is a noun that describes someone's actions. "Nazi" is a noun that describes someone's political beliefs. It is absolutely worse to be called a "groomer" because that is a direct claim of immoral and often illegal behavior. "You are doing something bad" is a more serious accusation than "you believe something bad".
- PathOfEclipse 4y ago
  If your belief system allows you to support genocide, does that make you better than someone who is doing something bad now that doesn't support genocide? No, I don't think your moral compass is any less subjective than mine, here. People act on and are motivated by their beliefs, and, if you're a Nazi, you're going to do things that move the world in a particular direction. And, here is an article talking about how the Trevor project "does" groom people: https://personandidentity.com/mother-of-trans-child-poses-as-teen-to-find-out-how-trevor-project-grooms-kids-into-transitioning/ https://personandidentity.com/mother-of-trans-child-poses-as... And another on the same story: https://pitt.substack.com/p/the-trevor-project-undercover-mom https://pitt.substack.com/p/the-trevor-project-undercover-mo... Are those going to get censored if I post them on twitter?
  - slg 4y ago
    >If your belief system allows you to support genocide, does that make you better than someone who is doing something bad now that doesn't support genocide? Many people who use the term "groomers" as loosely as LibsOfTikTok already think of this "grooming" as equivalent to a genocide. That is my point. "Groomers" implies that the bad is already happening while "Nazi" implies the bad is a belief with undefined actions. It is the difference between being call a murderer and a psychopath. One says you already did something bad. The other says you might be capable of something bad.
    - jl6 4y ago

systemvoltage 4y ago

This is not an accurate representation of what LibsofTiktok is and what content they post. There are specifics about what false claims. All they do is repost TikTok’s insanity. In some ways, LibsofTiktok has done world a whole lot of good, by exposing and immunizing against extreme left ideologies that even the most devout progressives reject. We need more of this that exposed extremes of either ideology. Because clearly the media has totally failed to do this.

redeeman 4y ago

libsoftiktok literally just puts an eye on content other people choose to make public to begin with

smcl 4y ago
That’s laughably false - take a peek at some of their tweets, shedloads of transphobic hate sprinkled with a bit of targeted harassment: https://github.com/salcoast/deleted-tweets-archive/blob/main/datasets/libsoftiktok-deleted.md https://github.com/salcoast/deleted-tweets-archive/blob/main...
- redeeman 4y ago
  Well okay, a paraphrase-transcription aswell. I do agree that the content that particular user finds and shows to me is very disturbing, especially given that it is often teachers taking care of very impressionable people(children) in a position of authority.
  - smcl 4y ago
    Are we looking at the same page? The majority of these are just a person frothing mad about a grand conspiracy of teachers who will stop at nothing until they have "trans"-ed all kids. They're completely unhinged
    - redeeman 4y ago
      is that why the teachers are crying due to the actual parents getting a glimpse into the school?
      - smcl 4y ago
        I can't make head nor tail of what you're saying. Can you try again, please?

scythe 4y ago

>Libel isn't legal in the US. In order for something to be libel, you have to know it is false and intend for people to believe it is true. The litter box story for example was spread by a trolling organization with the intention of fooling people like LoTT and Tucker. It's not libel because they fell for it — it's stupid, but it's not libel. Likewise, the criticism of the The Trevor Project likely reflects a sincerely held belief that the known activities of TTP constitute "grooming", and not a measurable claim that TTP staff are actively engaging in activities conventionally understood as pedophilia. Also not libel.

joshuamorton 4y ago
This is not true. Defamation (libel and slander) in the US is distinct depending on how well known the victim is. For a famous victim, yes you must essentially know the statement was false. But if the victim is not a public individual, you need only act with negligence (e.g. violate the reasonable person standard). The litter box story, for example, doesn't involve famous people, it's like random local school districts, and no reasonable person would believe it to be true. The Trevor project likely does constitute a public organization, so the standard is higher, but only requires actual malice, which means "reckless disregard" for the truth of the statements. It's probably not met, because it is a high standard, but it doesn't actually require that they know themselves to be lying.