7 ms·

Lots of people are publicly mocked on Twitter everyday. What makes "trans" people so special?

by illuminerdy 4y ago

bwbuhse 4y ago
I mean, if you purposefully misgender a cis person on Twitter, the same rule applies. Not sure what your issue is
- TexanFeller 4y ago
  The obvious response is that that that shouldn't result in a ban either. There's a right not to be physically threatened, but there is and should not be no right to not be offended.
  - illuminerdy 4y ago
    I agree. The marketplace of ideas and opinions should be protected to the greatest extent possible. Restrictions should be limited to things such as actual threats, doxxing of private information, and illegal content. Otherwise, allow people to use the block, mute, and unfollow buttons as they see fit as a form of personal moderation.
- ThrowawayTestr 4y ago
  "Cis" people dont care about being misgendered.
  - xsmasher 4y ago
    - chudmeister 4y ago
  - TexanFeller 4y ago
    Sure I’d hate it if you called me a TexanLady instead of a TexanFeller. But I will defend your right to call me names. Speech that offends someone doesn’t imply speech that shouldn’t be allowed.
    - runarberg 4y ago
      Even if that is true—and it isn’t—a platform is under no obligation allow it, and most don’t (including HN).
  - Shared404 4y ago
    The prevalence of "Real men don't do $THING" would suggest you are incorrect.
  - scoofy 4y ago
    I've been called a sissy on many an occasion. That is in fact, being misgendered, and I cared a lot when I was young. I no longer care about being mocked and I reject gender norms in general, but I'm just old enough to just realize a bully being an asshole is a tale as old as time. I realize though that it isn't always on option for people. This can be much more challenging if it's in the workplace, or when people are younger and social acceptance is more important. I think the trans movement would be helped massively if we just focused on that being anti-trans is just being bullying. The focus on edge-cases and ontology and essentialism of gender makes the debate much more muddy.
    - ThrowawayTestr 4y ago
      >I've been called a sissy on many an occasion. That's just an insult.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  Regardless of dictionary definitions, when judged by the tone and context of common use, "cis" is primarily a slur which is used to de-legitimize and insult the people it is directed at. Of the people who are ostensibly "cis", exceptionally few will choose to self-describe using that word. Kindly refrain from using it.
  - Shared404 4y ago
    The only people who would have cis used to "delegitimize" them would be ones who are saying something innacurate about trans people and are being told that they do not have relevant frame of reference for that comment. Describing cis as a slur is... Wow.
    - MichaelCollins 4y ago
      Slurs are made by context, tone, and perception by the target. I have never been called "cis" except by people with antagonistic tones trying to get a rise out of me. Furthermore the overwhelming majority of the roughly two billion English speakers around the world who aren't trans do not self-describe as "cis". It's a slur.
      - Shared404 4y ago
        > I have never been called "cis" except by people with antagonistic tones trying to get a rise out of me. I can tell you from personal experience that this says more about you than the word. The majority of people in my circle would self describe as cis, and most people I interact with would self identify as cis if the meaning was explained to them.
        ilyt 4y ago
        That's more about your social circle than everyone's elses tbh. On twitter I've almost exclusively used as mild derogative
        Cameri 4y ago
- chudmeister 4y ago
memish 4y ago
The difference is a highly engaged set of authoritarian activists who will assassinate your character and get you fired. Other groups don't have the equivalent of a Red Guard to enforce their ideology or religion.
- runarberg 4y ago
  I’m pretty sure trans people are a protected minority in most jurisdictions. So you are wrong. The judicial system has evaluated that—for some valid reason; according to our laws—mocking trans people is worse then mocking cis people.
  - illuminerdy 4y ago
    > "I’m pretty sure trans people are a protected minority in most jurisdictions. So you are wrong. The judicial system has evaluated that—for some valid reason; according to our laws—mocking trans people is worse then mocking cis people." lol I don't know what "jurisdiction" you're living in, but "mocking trans people" is in no way a legal matter in the U.S. I can mock "trans" people as much as I want and there's not a damn thing you or the government can do about it as long as I am doing it on my own dime and on my own time.
    - runarberg 4y ago
      I don’t think you can—or at least there are limits, I’m pretty sure targeted harassment is a crime, and I think targeted harassment against a protected minority approaches a hate crime. So mocking trans people is definitely a more serious issue then mocking cis people.
      - throwayyy479087 4y ago
        None of this is true in America
- spamuel 4y ago
  DARVOism, illustrated.
masukomi 4y ago
a simple example: people who get mocked for being bald don't typically get killed for their baldness. People who get mocked for being trans ARE FREQUENTLY killed for their transness. We don't need to protect bald people from mocking, because the consequences are minimal. We need to protect trans people from mocking because the consequences are _maximal_. trans people are an endangered (in the most literal sense) minority that is not doing anything to hurt others and yet is frequently targeted for many heinous things. Thus, they are special and need our protection.
- gspetr 4y ago
  >FREQUENTLY https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_killed_for_being_transgender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_killed_for_bein... I see single digits per year. Worldwide. What is your definition of frequently? If you know of more cases with reliable sources then perhaps the article should be expanded. While Wikipedia is of course not the most exhaustive source, it ranks quite high in Search Engines. For many people it is frequently their sole source of information for such issues, which is why I see merit for people who know more than I do about the issue to make the necessary edits to expand the article.
- illuminerdy 4y ago
  I don't see why you think that everyone should be blamed for what a handful of others do. Their crimes are not my crimes. That's not the way a free society works. Also, mocking "trans" people is not a gateway to murder. I mock "trans" people all the time and I've never murdered one or even thought about doing so.
Overtonwindow 4y ago

Lots of people are publicly mocked on Twitter everyday. What makes "trans" people so special?

bwbuhse 4y ago

I mean, if you purposefully misgender a cis person on Twitter, the same rule applies. Not sure what your issue is

TexanFeller 4y ago
The obvious response is that that that shouldn't result in a ban either. There's a right not to be physically threatened, but there is and should not be no right to not be offended.
- illuminerdy 4y ago
  I agree. The marketplace of ideas and opinions should be protected to the greatest extent possible. Restrictions should be limited to things such as actual threats, doxxing of private information, and illegal content. Otherwise, allow people to use the block, mute, and unfollow buttons as they see fit as a form of personal moderation.
ThrowawayTestr 4y ago
"Cis" people dont care about being misgendered.
- xsmasher 4y ago
  - chudmeister 4y ago
- TexanFeller 4y ago
  Sure I’d hate it if you called me a TexanLady instead of a TexanFeller. But I will defend your right to call me names. Speech that offends someone doesn’t imply speech that shouldn’t be allowed.
  - runarberg 4y ago
    Even if that is true—and it isn’t—a platform is under no obligation allow it, and most don’t (including HN).
- Shared404 4y ago
  The prevalence of "Real men don't do $THING" would suggest you are incorrect.
- scoofy 4y ago
  I've been called a sissy on many an occasion. That is in fact, being misgendered, and I cared a lot when I was young. I no longer care about being mocked and I reject gender norms in general, but I'm just old enough to just realize a bully being an asshole is a tale as old as time. I realize though that it isn't always on option for people. This can be much more challenging if it's in the workplace, or when people are younger and social acceptance is more important. I think the trans movement would be helped massively if we just focused on that being anti-trans is just being bullying. The focus on edge-cases and ontology and essentialism of gender makes the debate much more muddy.
  - ThrowawayTestr 4y ago
    >I've been called a sissy on many an occasion. That's just an insult.
MichaelCollins 4y ago
Regardless of dictionary definitions, when judged by the tone and context of common use, "cis" is primarily a slur which is used to de-legitimize and insult the people it is directed at. Of the people who are ostensibly "cis", exceptionally few will choose to self-describe using that word. Kindly refrain from using it.
- Shared404 4y ago
  The only people who would have cis used to "delegitimize" them would be ones who are saying something innacurate about trans people and are being told that they do not have relevant frame of reference for that comment. Describing cis as a slur is... Wow.
  - MichaelCollins 4y ago
    Slurs are made by context, tone, and perception by the target. I have never been called "cis" except by people with antagonistic tones trying to get a rise out of me. Furthermore the overwhelming majority of the roughly two billion English speakers around the world who aren't trans do not self-describe as "cis". It's a slur.
    - Shared404 4y ago
      > I have never been called "cis" except by people with antagonistic tones trying to get a rise out of me. I can tell you from personal experience that this says more about you than the word. The majority of people in my circle would self describe as cis, and most people I interact with would self identify as cis if the meaning was explained to them.
      - ilyt 4y ago
        That's more about your social circle than everyone's elses tbh. On twitter I've almost exclusively used as mild derogative
      - Cameri 4y ago
chudmeister 4y ago

memish 4y ago

The difference is a highly engaged set of authoritarian activists who will assassinate your character and get you fired. Other groups don't have the equivalent of a Red Guard to enforce their ideology or religion.

runarberg 4y ago
I’m pretty sure trans people are a protected minority in most jurisdictions. So you are wrong. The judicial system has evaluated that—for some valid reason; according to our laws—mocking trans people is worse then mocking cis people.
- illuminerdy 4y ago
  > "I’m pretty sure trans people are a protected minority in most jurisdictions. So you are wrong. The judicial system has evaluated that—for some valid reason; according to our laws—mocking trans people is worse then mocking cis people." lol I don't know what "jurisdiction" you're living in, but "mocking trans people" is in no way a legal matter in the U.S. I can mock "trans" people as much as I want and there's not a damn thing you or the government can do about it as long as I am doing it on my own dime and on my own time.
  - runarberg 4y ago
    I don’t think you can—or at least there are limits, I’m pretty sure targeted harassment is a crime, and I think targeted harassment against a protected minority approaches a hate crime. So mocking trans people is definitely a more serious issue then mocking cis people.
    - throwayyy479087 4y ago
      None of this is true in America
spamuel 4y ago
DARVOism, illustrated.

masukomi 4y ago

a simple example: people who get mocked for being bald don't typically get killed for their baldness. People who get mocked for being trans ARE FREQUENTLY killed for their transness. We don't need to protect bald people from mocking, because the consequences are minimal. We need to protect trans people from mocking because the consequences are _maximal_. trans people are an endangered (in the most literal sense) minority that is not doing anything to hurt others and yet is frequently targeted for many heinous things. Thus, they are special and need our protection.

gspetr 4y ago
>FREQUENTLY https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_killed_for_being_transgender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_killed_for_bein... I see single digits per year. Worldwide. What is your definition of frequently? If you know of more cases with reliable sources then perhaps the article should be expanded. While Wikipedia is of course not the most exhaustive source, it ranks quite high in Search Engines. For many people it is frequently their sole source of information for such issues, which is why I see merit for people who know more than I do about the issue to make the necessary edits to expand the article.
illuminerdy 4y ago
I don't see why you think that everyone should be blamed for what a handful of others do. Their crimes are not my crimes. That's not the way a free society works. Also, mocking "trans" people is not a gateway to murder. I mock "trans" people all the time and I've never murdered one or even thought about doing so.

Overtonwindow 4y ago